To think that there is no hope here?

I honestly despair, when I read nonsense like this.

The OP is right - there is no hope.

So disrespectful to the awful situation over there.

Out of those currently reliant on the state, many will have contributed in the past. I am a pensioner and not reliant on the state, am independent, but if I had no private pension I would have to claim benefits like pension credit and housing, etc. I worked all of my adult life until retirement and contributed.

Plenty of other current claimants have worked over the years, things happen that can change that, illness for example.

I can remember a time many years ago when women were encouraged to opt out of paying contributions and advised not to pay into an occupational pension. A lot did, I thought about it but never got round to it and am very glad but that could have been me.

You cannot judge others. I never did. My mother who died in 1995 managed to live quite comfortably until she was 86, I also had an older cousin who was chronically sick who lived until she was 84, both managed because of the welfare state. I never grudged them or others, I paid (and still pay as a pensioner), contributions so that people would have a safety net. That is what the welfare state is about, caring. Nobody knows what is around the corner.

Absolutely this!!

Also, if you’re just shy of the top 1% then your tax burden is higher than most, but you also have a lot more income left over afterwards - 20% of £20,000 leaves you with a lot less money than 50% of a £1,000,000!! Having the ability to invest surplus money to make more money is also a very privileged position to be in.

I don't think it is inevitable that pensioners become reliant on the state. People need to make more provision rather while they are working for their old age. Rather than spend spend spend and expect someone else to help in the future. We need to make hay when sun shines so to speak.

While importing millions of people every year primarily to keep wages low and rents high.

The top one per cent pay 30 per cent of all income tax revenues: a higher share than at any time in past twenty years. In other words, three in every ten pounds that the government receives in income tax is paid by just over 300,000 individuals.

And the Lefties are simply too stupid to see this. Utter imbeciles.

Let them own it.

There is a difference between being a net contributor and relying on the state. To be a net contributor you need to be paying £17,000 a year per dependent. When I was earning less I didn’t pay that much in taxes but didn’t get any benefits whereas @Taxed is suggesting you are one or the other from the OP.

I think the disincentives to work and earn (more) are present at every level.

I earn 24k. My husband also works so that is not the only wage coming into my house.

Our household would benefit from us bringing home a little more but myself and my husband work at different times around our younger son who has special needs.

The time I could look at getting more work is during the school day 2 days each week. But wraparound care is patchy and when available 2 hours after school care is equivalent to 2 hours of minimum wage so after paying my deductions I would be paying to work for those hours.

I am left with 9:30-2:30 so a 5 hour shift. If I could find something covering those hours at minimum wage (12.21) I would earn £61.05 before deductions. After tax, national insurance and student loan (having already used my tax free allowance in my main job) I'd probably be left with £40.

So far I haven't felt that earning £40 for a day does not balance out the extra stress of losing my housework and downtime and knowing I will have to let my employer down if my son is sick.

What I am getting at is I don't think people consider if someone already earning a low wage, let's say £12.50 does an hours overtime after tax, national insurance and student loan repayments they could be left with £7.50 for an hour.

Someone earning £100 an hour even with a deduction rate of 80% would still be taking home £20. And many people earn much more than £100 an hour of course.

Many people are doing the "is it worth it" calculation and figuring that long hours and overtime are not worth it and that's before you factor in people that get universal credit to top up their wage (reducing the incentive to work more further) or people that lose their child benefit/personal allowance or free childcare hours by working more.

Where thresholds exist whether that is hitting the personal allowance limit for tax or hitting 100k and losing the personal allowance people close to the threshold will change their behaviour to stay below them. I gather people with little kids can find it not worth having a pay rise or even harmful to have one between 100k - 120k as they lose more than they gain. A lot of people would rather work a 4 day week and keep the personal allowance and free childcare. I would guess most people earning 100k are pretty savvy and won't be busy fools.

It was already working as a deterrent as people were diverting to Ireland.

Benefits on housing ARE capped. In my area they use Local Housing Allowance, a figure per size of house. At the moment the LHA is much lower - the average rent for a 2 bed private rental is £1100 but the LHA is £944.

I find myself frustrated at your posts OP. You are more than comfortably off, almost in the 1% yet you are “tired and sad”.

I earn fairly good money. I significantly more than my friend who is a nurse manager. But her job contributes to society in a way that mine never will.

The guy stacking shelves in Tesco probably does more for society on a day to day basis than someone paid £100k working as a consultant for one of the jazzy firms.

Yes, the level of benefits needs to be looked at asap. But your post is completely OTT.

Bon voyage, OP. Good luck in Israel or wherever. Do write back to let us know how you’re getting on.

So a free car then.

Could’ve said that without the word salad.

The rot set in with Blair and 30 years of disastrous policies.

wage stagnation, selling off council housing, privatisation started under thatcher.

A huge proportion of people have to be topped up by the government because they don't earn enough to live on. It's the employers who need to pay living wages. I have a friend who earns a huge salary as manager of a company that makes things for the government. So in a sense people like him are reliant on the government too. They need to do an audit on the money that goes out. It's not just about benefits.

An utterly naive post.

As a non-resident, you simply need to comply with the SRT, meaning you are permitted 90 days in the UK within any given tax year. I know because I did it for six years, and believe me, 90 days in sufficient….

One can enjoy the summer in the UK, and then get the hell out.

Because then she'd be a hypocrite, included in the 52%

Well you are a high earner OP because your company can afford to pay you lots of money as it is profitable. I’m assuming that lots of its profit is made from other employees on less generous salaries that may even have to depend on the state to help with their living expenses. In theory, the company could pay all its employees enough to not be state reliant, earn less profit but your salary may also decrease in this instance. You can moan all you like about the tax you have to pay but the state-reliant people you begrudge being supported are probably also the people that effectively allow you to be paid what you are.

In expensive areas ,the landlords are charging a lot more ,and the benefits system is making up the difference.
I read something somewhere about , basically the benefits are being paid to the rich landlords ,so it suits the government to keep house prices high .
If benefits on housing were massively capped,it would bring down the costs of rent .
But only the wealthy are landlords,like most of parliament,so it's a free handout to the rich .
I don't know if I've explained myself very well.but it sounded much better when I read it ,to when I've tried to explain it

What is the obsession with being a net contributor?

Many people receiving benefits are in work. The simple fact is that wages are too low, rents are too high, and the government subsidises the wealthy businesses and property owners that pay the low wages and charge high rents.

If you can leave then get out of here before the collapse. Sadly most people in Britain are poor or skint and don't have the options to just up and leave. Brexit and language barriers make it tougher as well.

The rot set in with Blair and 30 years of disastrous policies.

It's inevitable with an ageing population that we have a higher % of people reliant on the state. What do those moaning suggest we do with pensioners?

Surely the real issue here is why half of all people need ‘state handouts’.
pensioners notwithstanding, it is utterly ridiculous that people in full time employment need universal credit or state help with childcare just in order to survive.
The lack of ability to get by because you do a job that is paid so badly you can barely make ends meet is atrocious.
Do you think that because people aren't bankers/lawyers/doctors/entrepreneurs/big business employees that they work less hard?
Do you understand that if everyone could/chose to do the type of jobs that would make them ‘rich’ society would completely break down because there would be noone collecting bins/mending roads/looking after nursery age children/cleaning work spaces and peoples homes/working in pubs or restaurants or cafes where richer people like to eat…the list goes on.
I dont think you work any harder than a single parent (or even two lower paid parents) with two jobs and working a 50/60 hour week whilst also trying to parent well and STILL needing help from universal credit in order to just scrape by.
The true issue is the disparity in wage that keeps some people at the bottom in jobs not valued by society (though patently absolutely essential to the ability for the richer ones to function in it) whilst others can have a lovely life whist sitting and congratulating themselves because they are clearly superior in high paid jobs.
its disgusting, really, the way our society ‘functions’