To think that gen Z is completely disengaged in service industry

several posters have said something along those lines.

But one of the few good things the conservatives did was hugely increase the minimum wage, dramatically in proportion to almost every other "professional" job (professional in brackets for lack of a better word, obviously you can be professional and take pride in a minimum wage job)

As an example, GP salary has increased 54% in the last 20 years, whereas minimum wage has gone up 151%

So that argument really doesn't hold water - yes COL has also increased hugely but if you are comparing like for like - i.e. people working minimum wage jobs now and 10/20/30 years ago, proportionally those in lower page jobs are much better off - the gap between those jobs and professional ones is much lower. So it doesn't make sense to suggest people were happier and more willing to work in those jobs then than they are now.

I do agree working conditions (like zero hour contacts etc.) could play a part. But objectively minimum wage pay is better than it's ever been.

Indeed.

noone should be on their phones whilst working whatever age they are

Nope, work with some fab people who are all about helping the public and giving a quality service, same in my last job!

Have to say in my work place I’ve had a much much better experience with the Gen Z’s than the Millennials. A large proportion of the millennials lived up to the stereotype. The Gen Z’s - just different. More common sense, enthusiastic, really great to work with. And unfortunately I’ve recently been in hospital and I was so struck by their kindness - messages, visits, really thoughtful gifts . And although some of them were just transiently based in my place quite a few still message me to let me know how they’re getting on, interviews good and bad, new jobs, engagements etc. It’s been a real privilege to get to know them. Way way more confident than I was at that age though!

I think the current generation are maybe more aware of their value to be honest. I remember the absolute abuse I used to take for minimum wage in jobs like the ones you've just listed and my managers 'customer is always right' attitude and the only benefits I'd say I got from that is now I know how to be a good manager. You may be a decent customer, but plenty aren't, people can be awful and it gets soul destroying pretty quickly. 'Act your wage' is doing the rounds for a reason - zero hours contracts, toxic work environments, wages that don't cover cost of living etc. I've had customers whistle/ snap their fingers at me, tell me I must be stupid or lazy to have ended up in retail (was working while doing my degree), been groped, had racist leaflets left in my place of work targeting a young colleague even aggressively demanded I use my employee discount to get them money off and told me they'd get me fired if I didn't.

I also think it's particularly difficult as a 'younger' employee. I remember when I worked in a shoe shop customers used to decline my service all the time and ask me to get them one of the older staff instead. We worked on commission so it literally lost me money and I'd trained all the older staff and been there the longest even though I was the youngest.

I think there are plenty of older people working in service industries with attitudes or lack of training or who are just willing away the hours to pension collection and want to do the bare minimum. But they're seen as having earned the right to do that. You feel entitled to pick apart the younger workers and that's the real issue here and why you're noticing it. You've probably had plenty of good service from younger workers over the years and horrible service from older people, but it's easier to blame it on age. Everyone has to start somewhere and at least they are out working and trying.

What jobs paid a premium for working weekends in the last 25-30 years? None of my jobs ever did and I worked from about '98, mainly in retail. I did get extra for bank holidays I think but not much.

Also barely anyone in Gen Z is working for a mortgage. People don't generally do this until they are mid twenties or older. Google suggests in 2000-2004 the average FTB was 29. I don't necessarily think that's right (I bought my first house at 21 in the halcyon but scary days of 100%+ mortgages) but certainly 18-25 year olds have generally not been buying property for decades.

I think a lot of people phone it in for their first jobs but this has noticeably degenerated in recent years, largely I think because of mobile phones. Surely employers don't allow phones in 'public' areas but that seems to be widely ignored. What do they think they are being paid for?! The amount of pubs or restaurants you go into and have to loudly say 'excuse me' to get attention is shocking.

There’s a reason the phrase ‘pay peanuts, get monkeys’ exists. Virtually no one is doing a minimum wage job as a career and it’s very hard to be motivated and enthusiastic when you essentially feel you are being fucked by the strap-on of capitalism whilst you do all the hard work for some bloke at the top who does sod all and earns 10 x as much as you.

I must set a reminder for the next generation-x-is-the-best-generation-and-generation-xers-are-the-coolest-people-ever nostalgia fest.
I actually love those

That could well be an M&S culture thing. A friend of mine has worked there for years & it sounds toxic.

Which is the job you’ve been employed to do. If you don’t want to serve customers, don’t work in customer service.

If you can’t do an easy job well, why would anyone employ you to do anything more challenging?

And have some self respect.

This. We've demotivated the younger generation. Half of first time buyers now get help from their parents. They're living for something else.

Or just do what you need to to get paid.

It’s a very mixed picture here- rudest bloke I’ve ever been served by is around 70 and in Waitrose!! Needs to get back to his gardening and daily Mail reading -

And why will anyone employ them in better jobs if they CBA in anything.

Agree with OP. DSD is looking for a job. I use the term loosely as every option we present her with is met with an eye roll and look of disgust, then followed with “I’d end up punching the customers for being so annoying”. When told she has to be professional, she laughed and said she’d do no such thing and that customers shouldn’t be so stupid and find things themselves. We despair…

Tbh if that's your attitude you'll always be a loser in life 🤷🏻‍♀️ most people don't remain in retail jobs, well maybe the people like that do, but most don't

I work in a management role, leading a reasonably large team. I find the younger members of the team to be a mixed bag - like pretty much every generation. Some are really hardworking and conscientious; with others, it’s like pulling teeth. I used to be assistant manager at a Nero’s twenty-five years ago and it was EXACTLY the same. No smartphones but some of my team were brilliantly hardworking, others would refuse to unclog a sink because their nails or would call in sick because their boyfriend of two weeks had dumped them and they couldn’t face it. Nothing changes - you just got older and less willing to accept crappy service.

It’s basically that quote that’s often misattributed to Socrates: "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." (while we don’t know exactly where it came from - potentially an amalgamation of Plato and Aristophanes, or neither, it was certainly around more than 100 years ago in 1907).

This just goes to show that we all get to the point where we assume the latest generation are generally feckless, entitled and lacking in any real gumption.

I think it’s the proliferation of this kind of attitude that’s the problem.

I was hugely in favour of minimum wage at the time it came in, but you hear this or similar so much. “Minimum effort for minimum wage”, “why should they be bothered when they are only earning minimum wage” etc.

I just ran it through an inflation calculator to check, and my first “Saturday job” (actually after school on a Wednesday) was the equivalent to about £1.50 per hour today. I took it because it would give me experience and a reference for a better paying Saturday job, and so I knew I needed to do a good job to be able to get the next one.

I guess the other difference was training and management. We used to be trained in customer service, and very quickly given a talking to if we didn’t get it right.

I am also regularly shocked that people are allowed their phones with them on the shop floor.

I’d completely disagree - I had several interactions over the past two days with Gen Z workers, all good, two in particular very positive and helpful - the lad at B&Q and the girl at Tesco. I’d have a think about the vibes you’re giving out.

This is it, the pre 2020s labour market doesn't exist any more.

Honestly? Yeah having happy customers and me being a positive influence in their day does give me warm fuzzies, and equally when I received friendly service that also gives me warm fuzzies too. A "hi, how are you?" goes a long way. Tell me, how are you left after a positive experience vs. a negative one? I like that saying "you catch more bees with honey". Work ethic gets you everywhere, it opens doors you didn't even know existed 🙂

Yep.

People on here can have whatever views they like about whether this should be important or not, but it is important and it doesn't matter whether you like that or not.

@Hocuspoc I don’t think it has to do with you being difficult or not (I didn’t say that at all in my comment neither), I just think young employees are just openly less invested nowadays as their attitude is also less formal.

My SIL is a manager in hospitality and has employees, including shift managers and so on, show up in hoodies and leggings… she’s not even much older than them, she just keeps saying “would it kill them to at least put on a nice top?” but apparently it’s so difficult to hire that she has to shut up and let it be.

I went into town the other day and the service was really low quality, across the board. Vast department stores with few staff on the floor who were not busy and avoidant. Nothing in DDs size, told to order online. Queued in a Costa at 3pm to be told they were shutting early due to staff shortages. So depressing. Went into Curry's to ask about televisions and was told they didn't know and had I tried Google?! Wasn't worth the trip in or the parking fee.

Work ethic isn't the same as it was, across the board. I do think it's more prevalent amongst younger adults, but we have a real problem in this country