Misuse of SAHM terminology

i don't consider myself a SAHM.

I have both my Teens at home. the 18yo is disabled.

I'm a Carer. It's literally my job, that the government pay me to do for him (carers allowance)

To me a SAHM is a mother who doesn't work a full time job, because she looks after her own kids. I do count mums with some PT weekend/evening work in that.

I think that the problem is that SAHM was a term coined in the days when having a job meant being out in a workplace away from home 9 to 5 and flexible working was rare.

As work has become more flexible and the terminology that links earning with being in or out of the home is outdated and no longer fit for purpose. It needs to be replaced with more specific descriptions like “I don’t do paid work” or “I don’t have an income” or “I don’t use childcare”, depending on the context in which the person needs to describe what they do.

If you told me you were a SAHM I'd presume it meant you didn't do paid employment. I don't think people who work permanent night shifts would call themselves SAHMs.

If you had to describe your life to others I'd say "I work in the evenings and some weekends, which means I can care for my children in the day"/

Not that I agree with the statement but surely you're not genuinely confused. A chef in a restaurant is a job, cooking your own dinner is not. Being a cleaner is a job, cleaning your own house is not. Being a teacher is a job, homeschooling your children is not. Being a nurse is a job, doing first aid for your family is not.

It's not a value judgement or a criticism or saying it's not hard to do. It's just that people often define "work" as "paid employment" - there are several things some people consider to be "work" that other people don't consider to be "work" (like being a SAHM, being self-employed, being a landlord, volunteering, education...).

It's just a difference of opinion over whether it is defined under that umbrella term - it's not so complex that you genuinely don't understand, nor is it an attack on you. No one said "work" is better than "not work".

I've never witnessed sneering from either working or stay-at-home Mothers.
It sounds like that specific woman had some issue with you, but you say 'working Mums sneer' indicating it happened a lot.

You get paid for work. You do not get paid for being with your own children. What else is there to understand?

“Being a SAHM isn’t work”
Today my children were at the childminder while I worked in my paid job. I assume you’d agree that what my childminder did from 8-4 today was “work”. But tomorrow when I stay at home and look after my children myself it’s not work? Make it make sense.

I suspect that was a badly thought-through attempt at humour on her part. She was likely trying to be self-deprecating rather than suggesting you should have a job.

In the real world, nobody at the school gate would think badly of a person who had caring responsibilities that could not be combined with paid work. What sort of monster would you have to be to think that way?

And very few people would be openly rude to someone whom they thought was lazy/privileged.

Judgy people will judge in any circumstance. I still remember running up the school drive one day after hitting bad traffic in way from work to school pick up, and the very polished mum in front of me at classroom door saying 'gosh you look all hot and bothered' and me explaining that I got stuck in trafficso was running late, and her saying 'gosh, does your husband not earn enough for you to not need to work, poor you and your poor children, you shouldn't have to work'.

They’re just a mum. Same as the rest of us who either work or don’t. I’m sorry but being a SAHM isn’t work. Being a mum in any capacity working or not isn’t work. It’s looking after the lifestyle choice we chose to make.

Absolutely. Live & let live. I took 9 years out of work ages ago whilst kids were small & mum with dementia. By heavens did working mums sneer. My husband was working away from home at the time so there was no option. I vividly recall at school pickup complimenting another mum on her jacket (it really suited her). She quickly said “yes well it’s my work jacket - some of us have to work, you know”. I felt completely humiliated. Just don’t judge, unless it directly impacts you in some way. But generally it doesn’t!

You’re a working mum… because you work.

Yeah there honestly isn't an anti SAHM bias it's just a bit of a cesspit so everyone gets criticised.

That makes no sense though because lots of people receive passive income from investment portfolios or property, which take very little time (if any) day to day. They wouodnt call it a job.

Ps I think if you earn a wage either by your business/‘hobby’ (a business!) or job, you aren’t a sahm. That’s your job!

learn something new from mumsnet everyday😂❤

This is a really interesting thread and yes definitely grey areas. I will say people shouldn’t ask questions as to why people are still sahms when their kids are in school, great those people asking can find childcare or have access to eg school transition get kids home, some people don’t and can’t find jobs that work around getting kids home, it was actually why I left one of my jobs, the constant arguments myself and dh were having with managers over getting time off or getting home (fair enough although in fairness we both always made up for it)

Also there's days my kids don’t get the full and proper help with homework or dinner is snacks or a rushed job at night because we’ve both been out at work and they’re being minded by their older brother, a neighbour or in a friend’s house (childcare is really hard to come by around here)

There’s advantages to both but there are definitely dropped standards all round here since I’ve increased hours at work (and I only work 30 hours, not even full time!)

I also hear a lot of mums on tik tok who have partners / husbands say things like “I’m a single parent for the day” or “watch me do a night of solo parenting”

I know that also ruffles feathers!

It goes both ways on here.

Working mums are selfish and materialistic
Working mums shouldn’t have bothered having children for nursery to raise them
Working mums don’t watch their children grow up

etc etc

I've noticed that Mumsnet seems to have a significant bias against SAHMs, and there appears to be a strong undercurrent of dislike towards them here. Topics related to SAHMs and similar subjects often spark heated discussions, with insults sometimes cleverly disguised as something else.

I have a friend whose insurance was invalidated because she said she was claiming unemployment benefits at the time so they said she was classed as unemployed. She now has to declare that she has this so her insurance is sky high.

you have to be careful what you put or it can cause havoc in the future.

Yeah I guess providing black market childcare isn't really a job 😂

Some are and some are not. I've done many years of taking care of other people's children, and it was not me "bringing my kids to work" It was people, generally ones I knew through some other part of my life, leaving their kids at my home, with me, on my terms. Which is their kids do the things my kids are doing.

I worked as a nanny before I had children and it was not at all the same.

This is what it was like when I was at home.

When my eldest daughter was a toddler, I watched a distant cousin's similar aged son a few mornings a week. The extra cash was welcome and it helped her out with some flexible care while she was at her 9 to 5 job and her dh did shiftwork in a factory.

When my kids were a bit older, I had a friend's two kids ft, and essentially they were just thrown in with my own kids. Their parents both worked 9 to 5. But I wouldn't have done it had I needed to be like a proper day care with a program, or staying home all day. They came on errands, did swim lessons, everything that we all did.

For a short period of a few months, as a favour to a friend in a tricky employment shift, I had her older kids, and taught them school. Would never have done that for too long.

I did a few research contracts when my kids were older. We home educated then, so I worked in the evenings mainly. It was a little extra cash in hand to buy a new fridge or something like that, I couldn't have sustained it long term.

When my oldest was old enough to babysit a bit, I took a job 2 hours at lunch time tutoring. That was closest to a "real" job, but had been incompatible, I'd have left the job.

After that I had no job for a bit, and then another with a few hours a week while kids were at school, and then I went back to work in a regular job, and had to make childcare arrangements. Then my dh retired and he is the SAHP who takes care of all things at home so he can do pick ups and drive kids around as needed. Though he does a little consulting on the side from time to time.

It's not cut and dried but it's pretty clear to me where the line was in both cases between sahp and wp.

Roles in HR and recruitment are going to be virtually disappearing very soon due to AI. As a many other roles. The way people work will look very different. Consider whether AI can do what you or your department can do, more effectively and in a second. We all need to think more flexibly and future-proof ourselves. .