Misuse of SAHM terminology

In fact, as a SAHM with 4 kids (say 2 in school, 2 pre-reception), the school holidays are easier because you don't have to cart the babies around on school runs or to the elder kids friend's houses or activities and have them falling asleep in the car at inconvenient times when you want to keep them awake so they sleep at night. The holidays are so much easier because you can make your own schedule without trying to be here, there and everywhere. Just have a house of chaos, have their friends over or whatever and be done with it.

@namechangeGOT - 3 single mum with one 10 year-old who doesn't work?

I know a LOT of SAHMs and I was one myself for many years. All have combined finances with the DH. All families can easily afford for her not to work. If they couldn't easily afford it, she wouldn't do it! All have multiple children and busy households. Never met a SAHM round here who didn't have a cleaner, many have part-time help or an au pair as well. DC are invariably in independent schools, which, in SW London are competitive entry, meaning that your kids may well end up in different schools. That's the type of set-up. Obviously with 3 or 4 kids, they don't all start school at the same time, so the SAHMs are (for years) dropping one or two at their respective schools in the morning, occupying the toddler(s) and/or baby in the day - taking them to groups, other activities, reading with/ to them, playing with them, socialising them, all the usual - then picking up the older ones, maybe taking them to their clubs or activities; play dates or having their friends over; dinner; homework etc etc etc. It's always changing as the kids get older, obviously. But it's not just one child, in school, that's it.

I know 3 just on the periphery of my friend group! And I think you’re missing the point!

Why does it matter?

@namechangeGOT - I don't think many single mums would be a SAHM with just one ten year old in school.

So, two single mothers. One child each. Both kids are 10 years old so are in school.

one mother works school hours. One mother doesn’t work.

Neither mother has additional help ie cleaner etc.

the working mother does all jobs when she’s picked the child up from school, the other does it in the daytime.

so how can a working mother not be doing the same as the SAHM?

@Thepeopleversuswork No, if you read what I said, I didn't say that men who expect their wives to work are abusive. Of course not! I said that, of the men I have known and know right now who are abusive, they all expect their wives to work AND do pretty much everything else AND are secretive about money and insist on separate accounts.

@banquepopulaire

You are projecting your own mindset there (and possibly your own experience). You can't comment on dynamics in anyone else's marriages. The most financially abusive men I've come across very much expect their wives to work. And crucially, they are secretive about money (often insisting on separate bank accounts). Those are the marriages with the unhealthy dynamics!

Two can play at projecting their own mindsets. Your assumptions are as much a bias of your own perspective/bias as mine are.

The idea that men who expect their wives to work are more financially abusive than those who don't is utter nonsense. So you believe that a man who seeks a working/economically productive woman is "abusive"? On what grounds?

Well they have children so are a mum and they stay at home covers the description just not the perception.

@Thepeopleversuswork "To me a SAHM is someone who doesn't bring in any money to the household because they choose to focus on childcare and domestic duties."

This is a strange assumption. Focusing on childcare - absolutely. But families with SAHMs have cleaners and help with domestic duties as much as any other family (probably more so in fact).

@Thepeopleversuswork "And the reason that "matters" in an economic sense is that if you've never brought in any money you're not contributing to the household economic 'pot". Not a judgement at all, but it does change the dynamics of the household and the marriage"

You are projecting your own mindset there (and possibly your own experience). You can't comment on dynamics in anyone else's marriages. The most financially abusive men I've come across very much expect their wives to work. And crucially, they are secretive about money (often insisting on separate bank accounts). Those are the marriages with the unhealthy dynamics!

@Thepeopleversuswork "Someone who is making money within the marriage (unless, maybe, it's a bit of pin money from selling crafts) can't be classified as a SAHM in my book"

Of course they can! SAHMs can have passive income, investment portfolios or sidelines as much as anyone else! Why wouldn't they?

I once saw someone describe themselves as a SAHP because they were on mat leave before returning to their job when their child was 9-10m lol. I think some people like the social kudos from some others.

All this to and fro about what is work and what isn't. If course looking after your own children is not 'a job' in the paid sense. But regardless of what you want to call it, the simple fact is SOMEONE NEEDS TO DO IT. So you do it yourself. Or you pay someone.

If you pay someone to look after your children for the most part of the day, you can't then claim that you are 'doing everything a SAHP is.' Because patently, you are not.

Claiming otherwise is as nonsensical as the type of husband who comes home in the evening, spends a few hours with the kids doing whatever needs doing and then proclaims he 'does childcare' just the same as his wife who is with them all day every day. No. That would be monumentally deluded and an insult to his wife, surely?

To me a SAHM is someone who doesn't bring in any money to the household because they choose to focus on childcare and domestic duties.

And the reason that "matters" in an economic sense is that if you've never brought in any money you're not contributing to the household economic 'pot". Not a judgement at all, but it does change the dynamics of the household and the marriage.

I work from home but I'm not a SAHM because I work.

Someone who is making money within the marriage (unless, maybe, it's a bit of pin money from selling crafts) can't be classified as a SAHM in my book. I wouldn't say a successful, home-based social media influencer is a SAHM. They're a home-based working mum.

I think when it came to applying for a job (paid employment), this would not be regarded as work.

Of course you worked to build your cabin etc, but then we all do this sort of work - go grocery shopping, clean our homes etc.

I think my username applies here.

"So if I live on a piece of land I own and cut down some trees and build myself a log cabin, and grow a garden and raise some pigs for food and cut logs for winter fuel, and all the rest, does that not count as work either?"

Some people would consider that "work", others would not consider that "work". Neither way is the insult you're taking it as.

So if I live on a piece of land I own and cut down some trees and build myself a log cabin, and grow a garden and raise some pigs for food and cut logs for winter fuel, and all the rest, does that not count as work either?

A parent staying home is almost always in part an economic decision to do part of the work of life rather than contracting it out. In this case childcare, and perhaps teaching.

Working for ourselves is the most basic and fundamental kind of work we can do. Working for a wage is not more "real".

Taking care of your friends and neighbours kids is what people have been doing for centuries. Lots of people just want their kids in a home environment.

Anyone saying "I'm working today" meaning they are caring for their own children is going to be at best misunderstood and at worst make them sound like a fool or making a point.

We all know that caring for children is hard work, but it's not work in the sense you can list it under employment on your cv.

It’s when people call themselves a ‘full time mum’ meaning a sahm mum that annoys.
Because yes working mums suddenly stop being a parent when they’re at work.

But the whole purpose of the SAHM label is to distinguish between those who earn their own money and those who don’t. It’s just the updated version of “housewife”. It’s got nothing to do with the experience of “working” and how it feels.

If you think it’s work then good for you! Personally, I don’t find looking after the children I had ‘work’.

The point is whether it’s for your own children or someone else’s, getting paid or not, it’s still the same work. It’s work.

It makes sense because your child minder is doing exactly that, ‘minding’ your child for you. Hence, you’re paying her for a service to look after the child/ren that you chose to have. Which you knew, when you had them became your responsibility. I work full time, I have one job. When I return home at the end of my shift, I don’t go to another job, I go home and do the tasks that come with choosing to be a mother and choosing to live in a house. When I take my child to school I don’t become a taxi driver, I’m simply being a mother and ensuring my child arrives at school. It doesn’t come with a wage, because it’s not a job.

When childless people clean their homes does that mean they’re working as a cleaner? Or just maintaining their homes?

When I changed the shower head in my bathroom last weekend, did I become a plumber?

I’m not employed as a vet/dog walker/animal psychologist but I do however look after the dog I chose to have. It’s not a job.

@AnneLovesGilberti agree.

I understand lots have disagreed with me, misunderstood me. It’s hard to type what I mean sometimes.

I do not know anyone who stays at home, and does nothing else, in our immediate area.

I know people who work full time, and of course are there for children when they are unwell, but they are working busy mums.

I know people who do not work, but care for a relative and or child.

I do not know this unknown entity of does nothing all day and children are at school.

I have said though, that’s rural life, farmers wife’s, blah blah.

for me, I gave up career, I do not have an employer, other than the children, and I do what I can when I can to bring in money.

in an interesting way I am bottom of the pile. I am the one who needs to say no, who picks up multiple children, who runs around after people, and who is relearning boundaries.

there is a perception that because I am at home, I am doing nothing.

and an inbuilt training from my mother that I must do everything for everyone.

also agree with the earlier comment that it doesn’t matter what you do, someone is going to pull you down.

there are bad stay at home mums, bad working mums, bad mums.

but the overwhelming majority are just doing the best they can with what they can.

I think I missed self employed off my post which is why I think it’s a bit fuzzier than some people consider it and I agree with what you say.

I have my own business, mostly done once the kids are down and at weekends, some weeks I’m working 4 or 5 nights, some weeks I barely do anything. I don’t use childcare and do some volunteering during the week, I’m around with my DC like a SAHM and do everything a SAHM does but earn money from my business out of hours. I don’t have to define myself often and don’t mind what people think, if I’m pitching for business I say I’m self employed, if I’m sorting play dates people know I’m a SAHM.

As other posters have said, the nature of work has changed a lot, wfh has changed everything for some people, the 9-5 in the office/factory/shop applies to fewer people so the old definitions aren’t as straightforward.