Who’s going to pay our pensions in 20-30years if the UK keeps its birth rate low and also restricts immigration?

Shouldn’t they be funding other pensions as they are presumably High tax payers and highly skilled?

isn’t that what we keep being told

Farm incomes have rocketed recently? Gosh, I must tell the neighbours, but I am fairly sure that they will tell me the only reason they have managed to sell their milk for more is that they have built a self-service 24-hour kiosk so they capture every penny from every milking without selling milk to supermarkets. I buy milk from the herd I watch graze every day. I see the farmer bringing his herd in for milking at 6am and again in the evening and I have bought his branded refillable glass bottles, which I clean and sterilise. He's outsourced the hygiene to me, and I'm not unhappy with the transaction. The milk marketing board pay about 45ppl, and the end consumer (me) pays £1.30ppl. So he gets more than double what the middle man takes out.

Have to fund the pensions of the 2m migrants Sunak let in.

And the NI increases. Plus more taxes in Autumn likely.

Farm incomes have rocketed recently? Gosh, I must tell the neighbours, but I am fairly sure that they will tell me the only reason they have managed to sell their milk for more is that they have built a self-service 24-hour kiosk so they capture every penny from every milking without selling milk to supermarkets. I buy milk from the herd I watch graze every day. I see the farmer bringing his herd in for milking at 6am and again in the evening and I have bought his branded refillable glass bottles, which I clean and sterilise. He's outsourced the hygiene to me, and I'm not unhappy with the transaction. The milk marketing board pay about 45ppl, and the end consumer (me) pays £1.30ppl. So he gets more than double what the middle man takes out.

Just pointing out Labour have done some things, stupid things but still.

Do you mean VAT on the luxury that is private schooling?

The ‘education and vocational training’ tax.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130#:~:text=From%201%20January%202025%2C%20education,VAT%20exempt%20before%20this%20date.

Farm IHT is at such a low level it raises almost nothing at all? i'm not a fan but as farm incomes have rocketed recently, i'm sure they'll manage.
Yes that farm tax.

Higher taxes
More growth
Yes worth another go at taxing ourselves into growth. It’s worked so well every other time in every country that tries it. Let’s start with school children and farms.LOL

Just pointing out Labour have done some things, stupid things but still.

Do you mean VAT on the luxury that is private schooling?

The ‘education and vocational training’ tax.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-education-and-vocational-training-notice-70130#:~:text=From%201%20January%202025%2C%20education,VAT%20exempt%20before%20this%20date.

Farm IHT is at such a low level it raises almost nothing at all? i'm not a fan but as farm incomes have rocketed recently, i'm sure they'll manage.
Yes that farm tax.

Higher taxes
More growth
Yes worth another go at taxing ourselves into growth. It’s worked so well every other time in every country that tries it. Let’s start with school children and farms.LOL

Do you mean VAT on the luxury that is private schooling?

Words matter, twisting them to state that Labour have introduced an Education Tax is surely beneath you?

Farm IHT is at such a low level it raises almost nothing at all? i'm not a fan but as farm incomes have rocketed recently, i'm sure they'll manage.

However, start a thread on either if you wish, this one is about funding the state pension, which means:

Higher taxes
More growth, which the Tories never managed in 14 years, i'll give them credit for that.....not.
Or less SP/higher retirement age... which hits the poor hardest.

Labour also introduced education tax and IHT on family farms, I don’t think you give them enough credit.

State pension can be funded by paying more NI/Tax.... i'd have thought that was obvious?
Hunts NI cuts will continue to cost the Govt around 10bn per year, without accounting for inflation.

People who want low taxes have to explain how we get to keep things like the SP.

Growing the economy seems to have escaped all parties so far, we had virtually none between 2010 and 2024, other than by increasing immigration, which drove Sunaks GDP growth, we allowed in 1m extra people, most of who were dependents.

Labour have had a year and their latest idea is to allow pubs to open up with even less restrictions on music and drinking hours, brilliant for those unfortunate enough to live near one, not too mention those who work in AE or for the wider nations health.

State pension can be funded by paying more NI/Tax.... i'd have thought that was obvious?
Hunts NI cuts will continue to cost the Govt around 10bn per year, without accounting for inflation.

People who want low taxes have to explain how we get to keep things like the SP.

Growing the economy seems to have escaped all parties so far, we had virtually none between 2010 and 2024, other than by increasing immigration, which drove Sunaks GDP growth, we allowed in 1m extra people, most of who were dependents.

Labour have had a year and their latest idea is to allow pubs to open up with even less restrictions on music and drinking hours, brilliant for those unfortunate enough to live near one, not too mention those who work in AE or for the wider nations health.

don’t you think if the pension age keeps increasing many of us won’t live to pension age at all.

This is a looming problem though isn't it - unaffordable house prices. Which means many people will be paying rent after they retire.

Maybe I'm just more frugal than most, but you don't really need a huge pension pot as long as your mortgage is paid off at retirement.
My dc pot should be around 100k when I plan to retire at 60, that will last until I am 67, with a bit left if I keep it invested.(my dh will have his state pension before me, so that will help)
Then at 67 we can manage on our state pensions and a bit of savings.
This will pay for one car, and a few breaks away each year.

If we didn’t have to pay for the teen’s uni, and find £1,000s for a house deposit, and put £1,000s a year into pension we could spend loads in the economy

but we do, previous generations didn’t
and future generations will have to self fund more - hence fewer and fewer babies

I don’t think they will means test pensions unless it is ridiculously high, telling the population the more tax you pay the less you are going to get on that scale would be political suicide

but removing other pension benefits - freezing pension credit as pensions rose until it disappears - reducing tripe lock to an average could mean inflation effectively reduces pensions in real cash terms

no point worrying about it - just save some so you are not entirely at the mercy of state age and pension

pensioners won’t be destitute just might have to live off the basics, if just state pension, it’s for sustenance not luxury

I think a lot of us are discussing how much we might need if the state pension reduces in value or is means tested or is raised to 75 or removed entirely, rather than what we need if the state pension continues roughly in its current form.

A lot of the pension advice when I started working 30 years ago was still based on your private pension being in addition to the state pension which is why its hard to remove. People planned accordingly. There wasnt auto enrolment, lots of lower earners weren't even offered access to company schemes etc.

I guess people are thinking of saying to an 18 year old plan as if you need to fund the entire lot yourself.

Imagine your scenario without 2 state pension.

They need to tackle the unemployment issues. I’ve got absolutely no problem with people who are so disabled that they can’t work. However, most disabled people can work. Some just choose not to and take handouts. It actually makes me sick to the stomach to fund a lifestyle like that when I’m out working everyday.

Well the only answer I can think of is to have more immigrants to help address the unbalanced age profile in the population, pay our pensions and also do the jobs that British people don’t seem to want to do. Clearly the numbers coming in must be managed.

i agree that we shouldn’t build on farmland - or at least it should be largely avoided. As I said in my original post, we are
going to have to get used to living in much smaller homes. In many countries it is the norm to live in a small flat. So, I think that is what will eventually have to happen in the UK. Obviously we can’t change our housing stock overnight.

What’s your suggestion for paying pensions?

Too many people are unaware of this. Pensioners do pay taxes, often having to sell their assets if necessary and depend on younger generations who look down on them. Pensioners don't pay national insurance because it is covered by the younger generations for them. In turn, the younger generations will eventually become pensioners themselves, and future younger people will pay for them. Each new generation dislikes the previous ones. It's circle of life.

I saw people talking about IHT, and I honestly can't stand it. It feels so unfair—I'm already paying over half of my salary in taxes, and even after I die, there will still be more taxes to pay. Sure, I know my DC will technically be the ones paying it, but the asset is mine, it's under my name, so in a way, I'm still paying for it indirectly. It's such a cruel joke. An even worse cruel joke is that my DC will have to sell everything to pay IHT, leaving nothing for them.

And eat less food? Can Britain as an island grow enough food to sustain its current population without having to rely on imports? In short - no we can't.

What happens if we see a big increase in population and have to build on farmland in order to house everyone - what then? More mouths to feed and even less land to produce it. And an even bigger trade deficit.

What happens when the countries we import food from decide that they can't sell it to us any more because they need it to sustain their own growing population?

The human overpopulation issue is a global one, and is way more significant than pensions (I used to work for an IFA by the way, so I do know how pensions work).