Who’s going to pay our pensions in 20-30years if the UK keeps its birth rate low and also restricts immigration?

Omg, clever you, you've totally baited me into wasting my time doing that because otherwise I'm eprried you'll thinking a thicko.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but interesting that you still can't find the time to link any evidence to your claim that the "vast majority of immigrants are a net drain on the public purse"

Interesting. Would you say we are at that point?

Well we are below replacement rate which seems to be the bit you can't reverse once you get to that point.

There was a really fascinating article someone linked about South Korea (I can never find it) and how the society has changed and children are almost an annoyance. The presence of child free zones eg cafes, mothers having to travel miles to maternity centres.

The IFS have done an interesting podcast on pro-natal policies and @duvetsmuvet is right - they don’t really work (even when very generous).

The ones getting pension credit end up better off than those with a small private pension. All council tax paid, rent paid , opticians and dental paid etc. Such an unfair system.

Omg, clever you, you've totally baited me into wasting my time doing that because otherwise I'm eprried you'll thinking a thicko.

Good old reverse psychology!

Who knew you were asking a faux-naive question?

I think the focus will transfer gradually to private pensions.

I'm 62. I started paying 3% into a private pension when I was 22, so 40 years of paying in either 3% or 5% (and a very short period paying 7.5%). My salary has always been about twice national average.

That has created a pot of about £420k. The money was invested during the global crash and during covid so it hasn't been all plain sailing.

I still have another 5 years to work. I think it will eventually give me a pension of between £18k and £20k per annum. I had one maternity leave, otherwise working solidly full time for 39 years.

So if someone did the same on average salary, I guess they would end up with about £210k in today's money, or a pension of about £9k-£10k p.a.

It's not much, is it ! 🙁

We're also having less kids because those of us who work, can't afford childcare...
In my area (go SNP!) the only people eligible for free/significantly subsided childcare are those who are on 'don't work' benefits...
But as is oft stated on here, those who work and contribute to tax are meant to be 'so so happy and grateful' to pay a wack of tax so that the lazy and feckless can have all the dc they want (state funded), while not being able to afford dc themselves, and if this is questioned.... the mn response is 'YOU WANT THE POOR TO STAAAARVE AND BRING BACK THE WORKHOUSE!!'...🙄

yeah, this has certainly changed people’s behaviour. But in reality, whilst it might change how much you contribute to a pension, people who are worried about IHT are not going to be destitute in retirement. They might just save the money in other ways with a view to doing more gifting.

I think the only developed country that has above replacement birth rates is Isreal but theirs has never dipped below.

Interesting. Would you say we are at that point?

Does it matter? You have (or haven't) set aside money for your retirement. Your call.

But I have. I started thinking about my pension in 1990, 35 years ago because I was self employed, and I have planned and considered all the angles ever since. I made decisions in 2003 and have lived with them. George Osborne's chancellorship was an unexpected boost. And now, another Chancellor wants to rewrite the rules to get more money out of the people who have made preparation for retiring without needing state funding to pay for all the passengers. I haven't thought it through completely, but my instant reaction is that I can pay tax elsewhere. I am quick at languages and eg Portugal taxes pension income at 7-10%. Of course, one would need to pay health insurance premiums as well, but it sounds like a cheap and appealing option.

@ThatBoldBear finances definitely impact whether people have dc or not but I believe the thinking is once society gets to a certain point any attempts to incentivise more dc & increase birth rates have not had any real impact.

I don’t have any figures to hand, but I would have thought that financial situation influences the number of children people have,

We never recovered from 08 and the can was kicked down the road. Little investment by governments & business and now the shit is hitting the fan. Add in the ageing population and the future is indeed bleak

I agree. People complain on here about anyone who says they put more into their pension in order to get free hours as if they’re cheating the system, but it’s literally exactly what the gov wants you to do. They could change that loophole easily, and save on the free hours funding, but they really want people to save into their pensions!

Ah yes, completely agree.

They should have left it out of inheritance tax, it’s made me rethink my planning a bit.

low productivity

@ThatBoldBear apologies that should say productivity not inequality.

and remove the loss of tax free allowance at 100k to encourage British people to have more children.'

Even with financial incentives I don't believe any country has increased birth rates.

How would inequality cause low GDP per capita? It’s not weighted in any way, it’s literally per capita.

We couldn’t really incentivise it anymore without literally paying people to save. You pay no tax at all on money saved into a pension and it adjusts your income for things like tax free childcare and free hours. It’s massively beneficial.

But surely your 40 years of pension contributions will give you more money than she’ll get? I’d rather be in your financial position.

Keeping immigration to net tax paying households would reduce immigration and boost tax coffers. Make education tax free again and encourage parents to explore independent education to reduce state education costs massively (especially around SEN). Introduce a national health system similar to Germanys and save an absolute FORTUNE on the NHS. Move the the income tax bands inline with where they would be if not frozen ( e.g. 80k for 40% ) and remove the loss of tax free allowance at 100k to encourage British people to have more children.

I spent forty years building up my pension. A friend who hasn't worked since having her kids benefits from pension credits. It is a bit of a slap in the face for all of us who believe we have to provide for our old age when many think the state will do it. At the moment, it will.