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Who’s going to pay our pensions in 20-30years if the UK keeps its birth rate low and also restricts immigration?

565 replies

AlertEagle · 27/07/2025 12:59

posted from another forum
Serious question. The UK’s birth rate is well below replacement level, meaning fewer young people entering the workforce. At the same time, the political mood seems pretty anti-immigration, even though immigration is one of the only things that’s kept the tax base stable.

State pensions are paid by current workers’ National Insurance contributions, not some magic fund. So… what happens when there’s a huge retired population and not enough working-age people to support them?

Will the government raise taxes, increase the retirement age, cut pensions, or eventually U-turn on immigration just to prop things up?

Feels like a ticking time bomb no one’s really addressing. Curious what others think, is anyone actually planning for this?

Or are we as a nation willing to give up state pensions if it means less immigration?

OP posts:
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7
CareerChange24 · 27/07/2025 21:37

frozendaisy · 27/07/2025 17:44

Pension age is already 67 for a lot of middle aged workers

Many are inputting into a private pension on top of workplace to retire closer to 60 than 70.

People are just going to either fund it themselves, or live on job seekers until state pension. Or find, stay in employment.

Just as uni has to now be personally funded, an earlier retirement will need to be.

This is why they are tightening PIP and sick allowances, to stop people thinking “I’ll go on sick until state pension age” - they know people will game the system. So tighten those rules first, then change the pension age again.

Genuinely I must be out of the loop, how are young people/parents self-funding university?

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 21:36

I'm saying I'm not citing a source for stuff that's easy to find online.

But it's not easy to find online that the vast majority of immigrants are a net drain hence why I asked!! Google tells me that's not true....

Otherwise I'm closing this conversation with you and restating my opinion amd having my final say that the evidence demonstrates that most immigrants are a net drain on the public purse.

Except you won't link to any said evidence...
😆😆

soupyspoon · 27/07/2025 21:32

FreedomandPeace · 27/07/2025 20:25

Yes yes yes!!!
Terraced properties and flats
all near public transport and work
Less cars = less land for cars
More land for agriculture

Can’t stand all these detached off street parking new properties on swirly roads. They cost too much, waste land, materials and are too much to run.

recently looked at a proposed housing project near me and we could fit in a further 23% more homes ( that’s 52 properties) Thus more dense design of ours would have saved other smaller developments or at the least left more grade 1 agricultural land to be just that.

In terms of job vacancies. First and foremost U.K. nationals should have to take jobs available. We should not have people capable of work, not working and then be forced to look abroad.
That’s ridiculous……and that includes fruit picking ( remember covid )

Edited

People dont want or like dense housing, people complain its bad for us

There are not swathes of unemployed yet employable UK people not willing to work

The people that are long term, chronic unemployed are unemployable.

In answer to your OP, OP I thought our population was increasing year on year and decade on decade so I dont think there is anti immigration, all governments regardless of what they say are pro immigraiton, for exactly this reason

EggnogNoggin · 27/07/2025 21:32

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 21:29

@EggnogNoggin Are you asking me to cite stuff when you refuse to? 😆😆

I'm saying I'm not citing a source for stuff that's easy to find online.

If you want to, or if you want to discuss it further with me, go ahead and find some sources to counter it.

Otherwise I'm closing this conversation with you and restating my opinion amd having my final say that the evidence demonstrates that most immigrants are a net drain on the public purse.

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 21:32

It’s time we have an honest conversation about euthanasia. People should have the right to choose a dignified death rather than face the prospect of spending their final years in underfunded institutions, looked after by staff who are underpaid, overworked, and often unmotivated.

But a dignified death costs money doesn't it? I thought Wes said we couldn't afford assisted dying.

Shittyhouse · 27/07/2025 21:31

Annoyedone · 27/07/2025 21:26

But would euthanasia be counted as suicide if it’s voluntary? My home insurance and life insurance won’t pay out if I am in any way responsible for my death. So my family would get nothing and be left with a large mortgage. So how does that work then?

But your life insurance or home insurance won’t cover you if you develop early-onset dementia, for example, and end up in a care home.

Believe me, you don’t want to end up in a care home anyway.

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 21:30

When you get old you need more support That's always been the way

But it becomes a problem when you have more old than young

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 21:29

@EggnogNoggin Are you asking me to cite stuff when you refuse to? 😆😆

Annoyedone · 27/07/2025 21:26

Shittyhouse · 27/07/2025 21:08

t's becoming impossible to manage. Many elderly people in care homes require 24/7 assistance. A single caregiver can only look after a few patients, and while care is already expensive, offering competitive wages makes it financially unsustainable. The result is likely to be even worse care in the future.

It’s time we have an honest conversation about euthanasia. People should have the right to choose a dignified death rather than face the prospect of spending their final years in underfunded institutions, looked after by staff who are underpaid, overworked, and often unmotivated. Some may prefer to leave their home and savings to their children rather than spend it all on care they never wanted in the first place

But would euthanasia be counted as suicide if it’s voluntary? My home insurance and life insurance won’t pay out if I am in any way responsible for my death. So my family would get nothing and be left with a large mortgage. So how does that work then?

Shittyhouse · 27/07/2025 21:25

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 20:25

We should be paying care workers a lot more but people don't want to pay for their care and want inheritance to go to their dc. It's all a mess.

Funny enough, it's often people with houses and money who don't want to go into care homes. Their children look after them for as long as possible and manageable. People without assets are usually the first to enter the care system and don’t make life difficult for their children, as they don’t have anything to lose.

And ironically, the biggest complaints about care homes often come from the children of those who don’t pay for their car
e.

Papyrophile · 27/07/2025 21:24

Could you possibly take some responsibility for your own future?

FreedomandPeace · 27/07/2025 21:21

Shittyhouse · 27/07/2025 21:08

t's becoming impossible to manage. Many elderly people in care homes require 24/7 assistance. A single caregiver can only look after a few patients, and while care is already expensive, offering competitive wages makes it financially unsustainable. The result is likely to be even worse care in the future.

It’s time we have an honest conversation about euthanasia. People should have the right to choose a dignified death rather than face the prospect of spending their final years in underfunded institutions, looked after by staff who are underpaid, overworked, and often unmotivated. Some may prefer to leave their home and savings to their children rather than spend it all on care they never wanted in the first place

And there we have it
Already

IDontHateRainbows · 27/07/2025 21:20

HeatonGrov · 27/07/2025 20:19

I am banking on AI boosting massively increasing productivity and wealth. The government will be able to redistribute wealth through the tax/benefit system and we will all be fine!

Is that you, Rachel?

Shittyhouse · 27/07/2025 21:08

Livelovebehappy · 27/07/2025 20:24

The problem with working in care homes is that nearly all the jobs are NMW and attract uneducated/unskilled applicants. A lot of whom are not suitable for the job. I think people working in care homes should get proper training, and have a good level of education. Afterall, we are entrusting vulnerable people to the care system, and need to be confident that the care they’re receiving is good quality care. Salaries for the job should then raise significantly, which will the attract more people. Giving the jobs to immigrants with no skills or in a lot of cases no command of the English language should not be happening.

t's becoming impossible to manage. Many elderly people in care homes require 24/7 assistance. A single caregiver can only look after a few patients, and while care is already expensive, offering competitive wages makes it financially unsustainable. The result is likely to be even worse care in the future.

It’s time we have an honest conversation about euthanasia. People should have the right to choose a dignified death rather than face the prospect of spending their final years in underfunded institutions, looked after by staff who are underpaid, overworked, and often unmotivated. Some may prefer to leave their home and savings to their children rather than spend it all on care they never wanted in the first place

AlertEagle · 27/07/2025 21:01

ThatLilacLurker · 27/07/2025 20:51

What are these jobs because this is not the case where I am? Supermarkets, restaurants etc all staffed by locals in my town. The farmers used eastern Europeans to help with harvest but they previously came on temporary visas and would leave again at the end of the season

London

OP posts:
FreedomandPeace · 27/07/2025 20:59

BurntBroccoli · 27/07/2025 20:55

Completely agree about the ticking time bomb.

Means testing and removing the triple lock would be a difficult policies to implement- look how well the WFA went! I completely agreed with the means testing of that and the government should not have backed down.

Larger number of younger WAPs are claiming PIP. This is the long term ticking time bomb.
Our MPs voted out the measures to truly cut back on that though.

When you get old you need more support
That's always been the way

EggnogNoggin · 27/07/2025 20:58

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 19:38

Omg, clever you, you've totally baited me into wasting my time doing that because otherwise I'm eprried you'll thinking a thicko.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but interesting that you still can't find the time to link any evidence to your claim that the "vast majority of immigrants are a net drain on the public purse"

And here's me still not taking the bait. Prove me wrong if you have the time.

BurntBroccoli · 27/07/2025 20:55

MickGeorge22 · 27/07/2025 13:36

I work in benefits for over 50's. There are so many pensioners currently who have barely worked their whole lives ( I appreciate things were different years ago especially for women). Many others retired at 60 and have been claiming state pension and pension credit, etc for 25/ 30 years.
I think it will get to a situation where the whole benefit system collapses eventually apart from maybe a very basic amount to live on if you genuinely have nothing else.
So many older people claiming Attendance allowance and all the extra pension credit etc that comes with that, so many people going into Pension age on PIP which can be up to twice that of AA. There just aren't the tax payers to fund it all for many more years. Add into this that many of today's young people will never be able to get on the housing ladder so unless we start building some more social housing pdq there will need to be funded with housing benefit when in their pension years as a modest private pension and possibly no state pension is not going to fund extortionate private rents for 20/30 years of retirement. Ticking timebomb unless someone makes some difficult decision soon.

Edited

Completely agree about the ticking time bomb.

Means testing and removing the triple lock would be a difficult policies to implement- look how well the WFA went! I completely agreed with the means testing of that and the government should not have backed down.

FreedomandPeace · 27/07/2025 20:52

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/07/2025 20:41

God,no. Haven't you seen how developers squeeze them in, the footprints are so small, it must be really claustrophobic to live in most of them. Flats always have, like, a quarter of a proper kitchen. Open plan with living room and just a a couple of feet of free worktop with the most low end of appliances.

Trust me I’ve seen. I’m an architect and have been made to plan them out. I, however am talking about the externals.
Detached is a waste of land, materials and has an increased long term energy usage
Garages are unessesary

ThatLilacLurker · 27/07/2025 20:51

AlertEagle · 27/07/2025 19:58

Yet there arent many people who want to do the low skill jobs that most unskilled immigrants are doing. What do you propose for them?

What are these jobs because this is not the case where I am? Supermarkets, restaurants etc all staffed by locals in my town. The farmers used eastern Europeans to help with harvest but they previously came on temporary visas and would leave again at the end of the season

BurntBroccoli · 27/07/2025 20:46

It’s not just that, we’ve also got to think about automation and AI that will reduce the number of employees required. No pay, no taxes, no pension.

It’s worrying.

Marylou2 · 27/07/2025 20:42

HeatonGrov · 27/07/2025 16:11

I do not think most people oppose immigration per se. Most people recognise the need for immigrants with the skill sets we need, who will respect UK laws espouse British values and become net contributors either in economic terms (highly skilled, highly paid and highly taxed) or social terms skilled in their field (eg Health and Social Care) earning a wage and doing a job that needs to be done.

What nobody wants is large scale immigration by people with no/low skills, who are incapable of doing jobs we need and who will always be net recipients of the state. Where such individuals enter the country illegally, commit serious crimes and do not respect our values, opposition increases

It is not difficult to separate these groups of immigrants.

Exactly this! Also the number of immigrants who work cash in hand or set up businesses that are fronts for money laundering and organised crime. Please don't bother to @ me in comments as everyone can see the proliferation of barbers, dodgy nail salons and mini marts selling illegal Cigarettes from under the counter in every town in the UK.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 27/07/2025 20:41

FreedomandPeace · 27/07/2025 20:25

Yes yes yes!!!
Terraced properties and flats
all near public transport and work
Less cars = less land for cars
More land for agriculture

Can’t stand all these detached off street parking new properties on swirly roads. They cost too much, waste land, materials and are too much to run.

recently looked at a proposed housing project near me and we could fit in a further 23% more homes ( that’s 52 properties) Thus more dense design of ours would have saved other smaller developments or at the least left more grade 1 agricultural land to be just that.

In terms of job vacancies. First and foremost U.K. nationals should have to take jobs available. We should not have people capable of work, not working and then be forced to look abroad.
That’s ridiculous……and that includes fruit picking ( remember covid )

Edited

God,no. Haven't you seen how developers squeeze them in, the footprints are so small, it must be really claustrophobic to live in most of them. Flats always have, like, a quarter of a proper kitchen. Open plan with living room and just a a couple of feet of free worktop with the most low end of appliances.

duvetsmuvet · 27/07/2025 20:40

Wouldnt it be easier if the benefits system had an overhaul. For example in other European countries where you can claim some sort of financial support you can, but only for a limited time and not indefinitely.

And in lots of European countries what you have paid in impacts what you get out.

AlertEagle · 27/07/2025 20:34

Livelovebehappy · 27/07/2025 20:28

Not deport ones already here, but certainly put a cap on any further immigrants entering the UK. Or allow only those who have skills that add value to our country, like doctors, teachers. We don’t need/want any unskilled workers. We have enough already without importing more.

Wouldnt it be easier if the benefits system had an overhaul. For example in other European countries where you can claim some sort of financial support you can, but only for a limited time and not indefinitely. For example uc was introduced to get people back to work but I know some individuals who have never worked in their life and they claim uc. They are british btw

OP posts: