To think The West is morally bankrupt

I am not singling out the UK. I also mentioned the US. I didn’t say the UK was terrible either.

Yeah but what about the “non West”? China, India, Middle East, Russia, South America - the pollution, gang warfare, slavery, rape and child abuse on an industrial scale, FGM, honour killings, stonings, executions for disagreeing with state policy, throwing gays off tall buildings, state sanctioned murder, people executed for fake crimes to harvest their organs, war mongering…..the list goes on.

I’d say the whole world is morally bankrupt and probably about 95% is down to male behaviour and need for dominance.

We are truly fucked on a global scale.

I'm not touchy. I just don't like several posters laying into one person for no reason. Anyway, decent of you to wish people luck.

Just to explain, I was talking about leaving the UK specifically in my earlier post, hence listing some Western countries. I also said earlier that it wasn't an East vs West problem but a problem with human beings. Making it into an East vs West argument is v reductive imo.

Well I can only explain it to you my friend I cannot comprehend it for you too.

Sadly, it's not uncommon on here. I've had it directed at me before when I dared to express a view that didn't fit with the schoolyard bullies's opinion. Is it a surprise that we are in such a mess when people can't disagree with each other without becoming nasty and making up things? If some posters love the UK, that's great. If others prefer to seek opportunities elsewhere, good luck to them. As I said, the UK is in a mess.

Yes, you have said that nowhere is perfect and that other places have their problems but what, exactly, am I making up?

You agreed with DetectiveFlorence when she said ‘as a whole we have become a mean spirited, ignorant nation.. You said ‘The West, the UK and US in particular, continue to trade on past glories and it’s all coming home to roost. I am done with it!’

So I’ll re-word it. Why are you singling out the UK ‘in particular’ for criticism when pretty much every other country in the world has either done exactly the same, or equivalent?

I’m not defensive, rather I think you are lazy.

It’s not about west vs none west. You’ve turned it into that because you have no legitimate argument to refute the original point which is that the West has caused and continues to cause the most damage globally. No one is talking about where is better to live etc you’ve gone down that tangent.

Again you're talking about a very small subset of the young. Just like in my day as a working class youth on a YTS scheme I never met anyone who campaigned for South Africa as these types were always well off university students as most of us working class were too busy working hard. They are the same types now obsessed with Palestine when there are lots of other dreadful things going on in the world they ignore.

🤣🤣🤣 this is absurd.

You made a point, i asked you to quantify it, you get incredibly defensive and ask me to quantify it for you because "why should you?"

Debate is dying as a skill.

‘Bullying’ to say Aus and NZ etc are western countries?

You’re a bit touchy. I agree there are great countries out there, I’m interested in which non western fit as better. Perhaps people feel China and UAE are better, which is fine. I’m not going to mind if they do think that. I wish them luck on going.

Thank you. There is the district tone of schoolyard bullying about on this thread. I see the attention is now turning to you as you have dared to offer a response that is apparently unacceptable!

You’re confusing ‘criticism’ with dislike. It’s not personal it’s just an observation.

Why can't you just say thank you for giving some examples and stop the bullying?

Seriously, what’s wrong with you? If you want to know, spend 5 mins finding out. It’s not for me to provide this to you.

Or they might turn sharply left! I think young people are more generally more concerned about the situation in Palestine than 'old, wealthy, white people'.

No the youth that attended elite universities and have been brainwashed are like this and to be clear my son fits this description. But they are not the majority thank goodness and hopefully their generation will have a working class leaders and people that have achieved something and not the PPE dross, old Etonians and people that have worked as political advisers etc and don't live in the real world who have led this country so badly for the last 20 years.

This thread is about the west v non west. You’ve included western countries in that list. Why?

Simultaneously there is the rise of the manosphere.

Younger gen Z and gen A are trending towards conservatism.

Why cant you just tell me?

Bizarre to evade giving information so freely accessible

Why do you and a few other posters keep hectoring this poster on the same point? She doesn't want to answer and isn't obliged to. Perhaps she is at an early stage of researching a move at present and doesn't want to share this. Why are you so defensive on this topic, even to the extent that you make things up?

Anyway, there are plenty of countries where the QOL is generally better than in the UK, although it obviously depends on the individual's job, family commitments, their preferences, budget, etc. I can give you a few countries which have provided better QOL for friends and colleagues. Australia, NZ, Singapore, HK, China, the US, UAE, some European countries eg Portugal and Spain.

You’re missing the point.

We all know our history. Nobody is denying the harm we caused, or continue to cause. The point is that it’s ridiculous to dislike the west or think it’s morally bankrupt when every country in the world has done, or is doing, exactly the same thing. Why single out the west for this self hatred? Of course we’re not ‘the good guys’. The point is that there are no ‘good guys’. You’re not special because you know what we all know.

@Magicpaintbrush ,

But a lot of the west have conveniently offshored their carbon emissions. We all want the manufactured goods, but we don’t want to be a part of manufacturing them.

Trump says he does, but I think he is talking from both sides of his mouth here. Does he really want the manufacturing or being able to both offshore manufacturing and then tax it?

I'm sure others have pointed this out already but re climate change and greenhouse gas emissions/pollution I think you'll find the worst offender is actually China.... Apparently China, USA, South Korea and Iran make up almost 50% of emissions - the US is the only western country of those.

There can't be many countries in the world that haven't been colonised at some point. Greece isn't an utterly dysfunctional hellhole and was colonised until relatively recently. The Netherlands, Singapore, South Korea; all doing well. Germany and Japan had a good go at carving up much of the world just a few decades ago, did unspeakable things, and yet we managed to move forwards with them instead of constantly expecting sackcloth and ashes.

One wonders why so many people are invested in looking backwards when 21st century colonisation is all about China, Russia and Iran? There are Russian mercenaries massacring whole villages of people in parts of Africa now. There are children working as virtual slaves in Chinese-owned mines in Africa now. Iran has infested whole swathes of the Middle East with its warmongering, murdering jihadis now. Let's drag our thinking to current and future problems.