Is my best friend racist?

Yep, and he/she has the nerve to ask me why I’m acting this way.

You cited Southport as one of the reasons why the net benefit of British Muslims to the UK is lessened.

What did Southport have to do with Muslims? And the actions of the racist white men, including riots, destruction of property and attempts to burn refugees, were nothing to do with Muslims.

How can you pretend that you’re open to discussion when you keep making comments like this?

Imagine stooping so low as to include the horrific and tragic deaths of three young girls by a severely disturbed individual from a Christian background into an argument regarding Muslim integration and cultural values. Absolutely disgusting.

Why do you keep acting like this? We’re discussing multiculturalism, my point is is it a net benefit? My view is, no. Maybe it could have been if we slowed down mass immigration, stopped ghettoisation or were more discerning about who immigrated. Some cultures are just too different and are directly in conflict with western values, I worry for my daughters.

Southport was the fault of racist white men, so why blame it on Muslims?
Racist white men were not behind the Southport attack, you are veering well off into what I will tolerate as acceptable. That is an outright lie and offensive.

Islamaphobic tropes
I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

I’m not going to engage with you any further. Other than being repetitive and constantly attempting to derail a rational discussion, I don’t think you are the slightest bit open or tolerant to other peoples experiences and viewpoints,

Well put. I think I’m going to stop engaging with them now.

I've just seen the most recent reply to your post - it's just deliberately snide and insulting, there's no attempt to actually engage in good faith at all so I don't blame you.

There are 4 millions of Muslims in the UK. To judge them by the 0.0001% of abusers is sly and discriminatory and something you wouldn’t do to any other community.

Southport was the fault of racist white men, so why blame it on Muslims?

The rest of your post just meanders into the same old Islamophobic tropes of women not being able to walk down the street, which is frankly ridiculous.

But thanks for your mealy mouthed platitude that Muslims do contribute, that must have hurt.

Well put. I think I’m going to stop engaging with them now.

It’s a tricky one as they obviously do but what is the net result positive? That’s really the question. Do NHS workers outweigh the misery in Rochdale, Southport etc? Does it outweigh the re introduction of sectarian politics? Of totally divided communities? Girls and women no longer being able to walk down the street? Political violence? I think like anything the answer is nuanced, it’s good the debate is finally out in the open though.

I can also see that a few specific people are posting repeatedly to change the initial tone of the thread.

It seems mad to me, as there's clearly a growing discontent with immigration levels in the UK and Europe, and trying to shut down discussion or call people racist, Islamophobic etc actually fuels things in the opposite direction. It's probably more effective than door to door campaigning for Reform.

Why can't people see that most fall into a middle ground of not being anti-immigration full stop, but wanting to see some control over who comes, and in what numbers.

Ok, let’s flip it round since you don’t even have the courage of your convictions.

Are you now saying that you do agree with Merry that ‘British Muslims are contributing every day: building businesses, serving in the NHS, teaching in schools, leading in politics, and enriching arts, culture, and community life.’?

So just be clear, your quote to prove I ‘openly denied that British Muslims contribute to the UK society?’ is a quote from someone else?

I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

You edited your post but it’s still there. Then here you are again in reply to me here.

You can repeat yourself as many times you like, we see through you.

Well now it seems that misogyny and violence against women and girls is alive and well amongst right wing groups. Why am I not surprised? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/26/two-in-five-arrested-for-last-summers-uk-riots-had-been-reported-for-domestic-abuse

Would you care to quote where I ‘openly denied …’
and then I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

Honest question, have you read my posts? I have posted about the statistics of misogyny and sexual offences that women face in the UK.

What have you posted in support of women?

And why are you not disturbed by @ThatBoldBear who has openly denied that British Muslims contribute to the UK society? What does that say about you?

So people can't put forward sensible points of view without being labelled as racist? YABVU

That’s entirely my way of thinking. People who don’t mind if their children marry a local or become Anglicans or atheists are predisposed to integrate well and we will have shared great great grand children. People who are resistant to that are only really accepted by host populations if they are temporary residents and go home. When they want to create permanent satellite communities that have effectively transplanted their entire way of life to a new country, they are not integrating and this causes tensions. Getting a job and being law abiding is not sufficient to be called integration. It needs to be social and familial.

I am non-caucasian and a second generation immigrant. She is not completely correct as there are ignorant people who hate because of the colour of someone's skin and are barn door racist. Other than that, I agree with many of her points and she doesn't sound racist to me. She sounds switched on.

Honest question for you: are you a man? I'm finding your total lack of interest in women's rights frankly disturbing.

I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

I refer you to my point about shutting down debate by accusing everyone of isms, phobias and ists.

Yes, I think there is a tendency for some people to not want to acknowledge that the story of the UK, or the countries within the UK, do involve "native" populations. Some seem very uncomfortable with that which is strange as generally they are ok with other nations having that.

But the story of the UK does also involve long periods where new groups became part of the story, to the point where they were no longer "other" I have Celtic, Saxon, and Norman ancestors, but of those the only one people really treat separably are the Celts, and even then most of the time it would just be seen as Scottish or English (in my case.)

So, in the future (by which I mean 500 years or so), I think there is little doubt that some of the groups that have come here may cease to be seen as part of a subgroup at all, they will just be part of the mix of British DNA, and some of their cultural things, like music or food or elements of language, will just be part of British culture.

Long term integration can be radical and positive, but where it is happening now if it's not managed well it can be divisive and even violent (as it has been sometimes in the past.)

Fair enough. I think we both know where the conversation goes if I bring up the ‘cultural enrichment’ of some areas of the U.K. so I’ll steer clear if all the same with you.

Stories, yes, which I think more can be made of (where they are positive) but not an origin story. And I think a lot of people forget that while Britain had an empire, the vast majority of people in Britain had no contact with it. Even at its height there were strict limits on the number of people allowed to go to India. It never exceeded 200,000 because there was a belief they too many British immigrants would cause tension and unrest. For immigration to countries to succeed, there needs to be an acknowledgement of the existence of a native population and a willingness to integrate, not live in silos alongside them. That means accepting their origin story, not telling them they have to create a new one.

My experience has been that to a very large degree, education is the thing that marks the differernce between those who will integrate well, and those who won't.

It's the same with some of the poor rural Hindus that have come to live in towns near me, they struggle to integrate and have in fact brought some of their own inter-cultural and inter-religious and class conflicts with them, which are playing out in communities and sometimes even in workplaces.

It seems similar with Muslim newcomers, those from more educated families and professions do very well, the poor, not so much.

In a way that shouldn't be a surprise, in India itself there are real problems between the educated urban classes and the poor coming from rural areas.