Is my best friend racist?

When posters start saying assumptions about ‘all Muslims’ then they need to be reminded of the statistics.

I’m guessing you’re white and from the UK? Women have rights in the UK. There’s still some prejudice, but you’re really ignorant if you think women in Asian countries have better women’s rights than in the UK. Speaking as someone who’s half Asian.

The vast majority of criminals are white

Why do you keep saying this? Are you trying to make some sort of point, or do you genuinely not have any understanding of basic statistics?

It seems they’re not yours. Before requiring every Muslim to be whiter than white, look at your own community first.

I think there are many different interpretation of what assimilation actually means. Which makes the term pretty meaningless. There should probably be a national conversation about what is actually expected of immigrants. Best time to do that was really a few decades ago, but maybe better late than never.

Oh dear. Demographics and statistics aren’t your thing, are they.

Let’s implement the Spanish Inquisition as the Reform Inquisition of Muslims and put every Muslim under investigation and trial. Any Muslims that don’t pass muster can be executed in the town square.

// sarcasm off.

Stop holding Muslims to impossible standards. The vast majority of criminals are white, go assimilate them first.

A lot of Muslims are assimilated, but there are substantial numbers that aren’t, and live in communities that don’t hold to the five core values I outlined in a previous post that are the bedrock of our society

Yes I'm thinking of areas of Yorkshire as well as parts of Birmingham. Unless people are using a different definition of assimilation than I am.

A lot of Muslims are assimilated, but there are substantial numbers that aren’t, and live in communities that don’t hold to the five core values I outlined in a previous post that are the bedrock of our society.

And Islam is a religion that anyone can join… it’s not a race. To say that criticism of Islam is “racist” assumes all Muslims are “brown”, which is itself arguably racist!

There's probably 4 million muslims in the UK now (last data 2021 3.87m) which is almost the population of Scotland - how can you know they are all perfectly well assimilated?

I fundamentally disagree with this statement. The majority of Muslims in the UK are perfectly well assimilated.

The othering of Muslims is racist.

@TankFlyBossW4lk

The problem with this is that there are more differences between us from similar or the same cultural backgrounds than there are between cultures.

That may be true for many cultures across the world that assimilate pretty well into the UK, but unfortunately it isn’t for some Asian cultures based on fundamentalist Islam…. As I outlined in my previous post, these differences are profound, and extend well beyond the relatively superficial differences between people in different classes and sub-cultures within the UK.

Of course there’s a range of views and perspectives held across the UK, but there are broadly a common set of values, (whether someone is from the upper, middle or working class), that allow us to exist as a coherent society…1) the rule of UK law, 2) the right of women to be independent citizens free from male domination, 3) democracy rather than theocracy, 4) freedom of religion, 5) freedom of expression…

People from many cultures across the world are able to accept these, and assimilate pretty well accordingly. However, this isn’t the case for some Asian cultures which are based on fundamentalist Islam, who don’t subscribe to the five basic principles outlined above.

That’s not to say all Muslims don’t, I personally know some that do and - love him or hate him - Sadiq Khan certainly ascribes to the five values I’ve outlined above.

You can call this Islamophobia is you like, but that’s just trying to stifle and silence the legitimate concern that certain cultures based on Islam are fundamentally incompatible with the UK’s core values. It’s nothing about race, however much some people try to make it so.

How to say “I’ve lost the argument” without saying “I’ve lost the argument”…

Married twice darling 💋

Yawn. Move on and change the bed sheets.

Really? What a bore you are.

That’s been the case for a while but there’s now needs to be more than the usual attacks.

Why is the narrative that populations should go up always a good one, and why is the chaotic, dangerous, unvetted system of asylum the best we can do? Tear gas on beaches and protests? It’s no where near a good system.

And that’s before you get to the vast profits made from it by trafficking networks.

"My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures."

The problem with this is that there are more differences between us from similar or the same cultural backgrounds than there are between cultures.

So, does your friend have issues with very religious Christians? I would argue that most of the UK aren't devout Christians. Does she feel that those integrating into the UK should be forbidden to become eg. Jehovah's Witnesses? That the rest of Western Europe should only be allowed to enter the UK if they have passed a test in the ability to form an orderly queue? Bet she doesn't. I suspect she's just talking about Muslims. At worst, anyone with a brown skin.

I'm sorry, I wouldn't be friends with this person. I'm a bit shocked at the normalisation of this type of rhetoric on MN.

Which bit was snide? Bet you can’t post even one example. Nice attempt to gang up on me with your chum though 👍

@GoodPudding over the last few years, any deviation from CorrectThink has lead to various namecalling - Terf, selfish granny killer, racist, bigot, islamphobe etc. It's massively lost it's impact, especially now when there's such disquiet at the numbers. I don't think they realise the shift that's taking place.

And one actually gets attacked for just pointing it out fairly neutrally. I mean, I saw migration as a positive, and channel crossings as a non-issue, until relatively recently. But you'd have to be blind not to realise that the sheer numbers of legal migrants are not compatible with integration, and will lead to social changes not necessarily welcomed (and yes I know they peaked under Boris Johnson - so much for HIS red wall popularity!); and you'd have to be blind and deaf not to see the social tensions caused by the migrants in the hotels, after case after case of sexual assault and even murder.

Calling people racists at this point just feels like gaslighting.

The “Left”s ideological rigidity when it comes to insisting that you either toe the line and accept with question that multi-culturalism is good, otherwise you are a “racist” - and there’s nothing worse or more ostracing to them than being a racist - is one of the reasons why they are losing the political battle to the “Right” at the moment, who, whilst it was its own issues, is at least in tune with the majority, and doesn’t seek to “cancel” them for political heresy if they dare to question particular views.

I agree with your friend. This isn’t racism.

I'm not sure I'd call that racist. It may sit uncomfortably with you if you have a different opinion, but it sounds like a point of view to which she's entitled.

Indeed, I think Trump is a narcissist sociopath. I strongly dislike the man…

And yet, simply because I suggested that a failure to allow people to voice cultural concerns, let alone address them, may push otherwise moderate people to the likes of Trump, you haven’t simply assumed I’m a Trump supporter, but presumed I was someone who is so sick that I support him because he is a sexual abuser!

There are many people who voted Trump who disliked the man hugely - hated even - but did so nonetheless because they felt the overriding concern was to choose a man who actually seemed to listen and be committed to do something about their grave concerns about the direction they felt the country was heading…

However bad the man, at least they felt he would make the country great again, and they felt that was the most important thing.

You will doubtless disagree with their analysis, but it doesn’t change the fact that this was their logic… Your “completely agree with us or be damned” attitude risks the same kind of thing happening here.