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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Genevieva · 25/07/2025 17:25

Counties aren’t blank canvases ready to be settled by whoever turns up. They have native populations with established cultural norms. Those people naturally want self-determination. That’s why western societies decided colonial rule had had its day and they needed to leave and let people run their own countries. Rapid immigration can cause the same issues f culture clash and disenfranchisement of the native population. It’s not racist to observe that.

TorroFerney · 25/07/2025 17:25

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:16

@Absentmindedsmile

The examples you have given would be swiftly dealt with here under the UK law though, so wouldn't happen here.
Some cultural differences would be illegal here and for good reason, but many won't be and their culture is a part of their identity, as our culture is a part of ours.

Hmm tell that to the girls who are murdered by parents for disobeying them/having boyfriends or who get sent abroad to be married. How is the law dealing with that? It's already happened by the time the police get involved.

NamefromNowhere · 25/07/2025 17:24

I agree with your friend.

DiscoBob · 25/07/2025 17:24

I think it's true that people gravitate towards those most similar to themselves. But also if you have no interaction with people of other races then you're probably more likely to be racist than those who know a mix. because people of all cultures are nice, and if you are close to other people you fear them less as everything is understood better.

ThejoyofNC · 25/07/2025 17:21

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:21

I don't live under a stone! I do travel to towns and cities in the UK. I see all kinds of people on my travels.

Right, so what have you seen to prove your friend wrong?

zaazaazoom · 25/07/2025 17:21

woodlandnoise · 25/07/2025 16:52

I agree with her - flip it around, if YOU travelled to a country with very modest dress laws, would YOU walk around in a bikini thinking fuck them, I do what I want!

I highly doubt you would. I suspect you'd be of the view that when you go to a country, you respect their culture, so why doesnt this apply both ways??

Where on the uk apart from a beach or a swimming pool is this acceptable?

I have been to a large number of places and unfortunately seen English people wearing pretty much nothing in places where it's not social acceptable but still do it.

I live on an incredibly diverse road and no one could give a fuck what anyone wears. I am often gardening in my stupidly short shorts and vest top chatting away to my Muslim neighbour in her hijab and our Sikh neighbour in his Turban. No one bats an eye.

Bubblegumicecreamm · 25/07/2025 17:21

Your friend is right.

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:21

ThejoyofNC · 25/07/2025 17:17

How typical.

It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.

Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.

I don't live under a stone! I do travel to towns and cities in the UK. I see all kinds of people on my travels.

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 25/07/2025 17:20

Totally agree with your friend and she's stating facts, not being racist.
Growing up as a white woman in an ethnically diverse city was pretty horrendous. As a white person, I had to put up with whatever racist comments people wanted to make and couldn't say anything back. If you made any complaints about their behaviour, they would always state you were racist, rather than accepting they'd done something wrong.
If people want to come here and settle, they have to do it legally, learn English and accept our laws and culture. If they're not interested, they can go elsewhere. If they break the law, then they're deported.
Other countries insist on this and it's accepted and respected.

Agrumpyknitter · 25/07/2025 17:18

I agree with your friend. Let me ask you how many friends she has that come from different ethnic backgrounds? White English people being the largest majority in this country do tend to have friends of the same background together, they also do this when they are ex-pats abroad in Spain and France too. Perhaps she should look at herself first.
I have many friends from all different backgrounds and cultures and being Indian and born here, I think I integrate really well. I can relate to most popular culture references, know more about this country’s history and literature than many of my white colleagues and friends. Growing up I didn’t have any friends from ethnic backgrounds because there were hardly any that went to my school, but I had lots of friends I still see 30 years later. Would that mean I would congregate with others of my own backgrounds
and exclude others if there had been more of us? Would it hell, it would depend on personality and interest.

ThejoyofNC · 25/07/2025 17:17

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:04

It is definitely not my opinion. I live in a small village out in the sticks and I'm not aware of anyone in the village I live in who is from a different culture or is a different race to myself.
I have no direct experience of different ethnicities, except what I hear from other people.
My friend lives 40 miles away from me in a town and her experience of living in a busy town are different to mine.

How typical.

It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.

Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.

TheFearInYourSoul · 25/07/2025 17:17

She doesn’t sound racist to me. Educated yes, racist no.

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:16

@Absentmindedsmile

The examples you have given would be swiftly dealt with here under the UK law though, so wouldn't happen here.
Some cultural differences would be illegal here and for good reason, but many won't be and their culture is a part of their identity, as our culture is a part of ours.

OP posts:
outingouting · 25/07/2025 17:14

"I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me."

Every year 12 MILLION girls are married as child brides.

I firmly believe some values are better than others. I have no regard for anyone who thinks child brides are in anyway legitimate.

tvand · 25/07/2025 17:14

I agree with her. Just look at British ex pat communities around the world - we form our own little ‘safe’ bubbles and often don’t fully integrate into the adopted country for the same reasons. People often gravitate toward their own cultures or at least something similar. Trying to force radically different cultures or worldviews together just doesn’t work. There’s nothing racist about holding that view.

Absentmindedsmile · 25/07/2025 17:08

Afghanistani men also a lovely respect for women. Nothing to worry about.

  • Taliban decrees seek to silence women in public, bar them from education above the age of 12, enforce head-to-toe coverings and restrict their travel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0l16424w1pt

Women in Afghanistan: Spend a day with those living under Taliban rule

The BBC spends the day with women across Afghanistan to understand what their lives look like under the Taliban government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0l16424w1pt

Createausername1970 · 25/07/2025 17:06

I don't think she is racist. I agree with her point of view. If you move to another country you need to integrate, learn to speak the native language and understand the customs and culture of that country. If that means you have to make compromises, then so be it.

And this equally applies to Brits living on the Costa Del Sol, unable to speak Spanish, as it does to anyone of any colour coming to live here.

Absentmindedsmile · 25/07/2025 17:06

https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/11/societies-that-treat-women-badly-are-poorer-and-less-stable

“A woman who drives a car will be killed,” says Sheikh Hazim Muhammad al-Manshad. He says it matter-of-factly, without raising his voice. The unwritten rules of his tribe, the al-Ghazi of southern Iraq, are clear. A woman who drives a car might meet a man. The very possibility is “a violation of her honour”. So her male relatives will kill her, with a knife or a bullet, and bury the body in a sand dune.

Yes of course. Eg. Men from Iran have a totally lovely view of women. 👀🙄

Societies that treat women badly are poorer and less stable

Oppressing women not only hurts women; it also hurts men

https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/11/societies-that-treat-women-badly-are-poorer-and-less-stable

mumandmumber · 25/07/2025 17:05

Pollqueen · 25/07/2025 16:55

Your friend is a realist rather than a racist and a large part of what she says is correct. Yes, you are naive

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to write.

We have to stop being idealistic and shamed for being realistic.
Of course it would be bloody lovely if everyone could get along and live peacefully integrated.
Is it possible? Sometimes, yes.
Is it realistic, all the time across the board? No.
Allow people to express that without being labelled a racist.

youalright · 25/07/2025 17:05

Your friend is correct and not racist just factual

gingerelephant · 25/07/2025 17:04

I agree with your friend - her view is not racist

OrangeCrushes · 25/07/2025 17:04

I agree with your friend. I don't think she is racist.

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:04

Pinkelephant66 · 25/07/2025 16:55

no it’s not racism. I very much agree with these statements. Although the way in which it is written, I would say it’s your opinion rather than a ‘friend’

It is definitely not my opinion. I live in a small village out in the sticks and I'm not aware of anyone in the village I live in who is from a different culture or is a different race to myself.
I have no direct experience of different ethnicities, except what I hear from other people.
My friend lives 40 miles away from me in a town and her experience of living in a busy town are different to mine.

OP posts:
CopperWhite · 25/07/2025 16:59

It’s racist to believe that remembering your own culture and religion contributes to racial tensions. It doesn’t. Small minded people who can’t accept that difference is ok and that their way is not automatically better are what causes racial tension.

Assuming that people from some groups are more likely to rape or treat women badly is racist.

I wouldn’t point out to this person that they are racist, I’d just stop being friends with them.

Absentmindedsmile · 25/07/2025 16:56

No she’s not racist. Yes you are naive.

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