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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

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9
Bubblegumicecreamm · 25/07/2025 17:51

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:41

Given the incredibly low number of sexual offences reported, using this statistics to prove anything other than “white men are not held to account for their crimes against women nearly enough”, is a silly thing to do.

So instead of admitting there’s cultural influences and differences, and it impacts the way women are regarded and treated, you’d rather call everyone racist?

You can try to claim some kind of moral superiority by clamping your eyes shut in wilful ignorance but the statistics do not agree with you.

saveforthat · 25/07/2025 17:49

It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!
FFS

keeptalkinghappytalk · 25/07/2025 17:45

oh please spare a thought for the women in those countries the young male asylum seekers leave behind.
Forced marriages, prohibition on working/ going out alone/ ... a legal system that requires subordination by a wife... or wives... to their husband... violent punishment for women who disobey/ break chastity laws/ don t cover their bodies and heads appropriately.

greengreyblue · 25/07/2025 17:45

Does your friend discriminate against others because of their race? If she does she’s a racist.
But it sounds like she was expressing her views and concerns about the state of the country. I don’t think that what she said is wild. My family were Irish immigrants. They were discriminated against when they came to London in the 1940s. Judge everyone by the content of their character.

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:45

zeddybrek · 25/07/2025 17:30

I'm Muslim and my parents are immigrants. I agree with your friend.

Ideally we like to think not but in reality people have segregated and continue those cultural behaviours in this country.

Also, she seems like she knows what she's talking about because it is the culture not religion we are talking about.

Also, it has not been easy to integrate.
My parents struggled to buy a house in a 'white' area and the estate agent told them it would be difficult beforehand.

My Dad bought the England football kit for my brother in the 80's and he was constantly told to go back where he came from and why was he wearing it.

So point being, those that did try to integrate, didn't have it easy and many just gave up. Hence isolated communities clinging on to where they feel safe and accepted.

There's more to this complex topic but overall I agree with your friend.

This is a really good point. If you go somewhere new and everyone around you is throwing rocks, are you going to try and sit down with them for dinner?

skymagentatwo · 25/07/2025 17:43

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:27

I see people from all walks of life going about their daily business. I don't see groups of people huddled together excluding others, I don't see people avoiding other people based on their perceived ethnicity.
I have never given other people's ethnicity a thought until lunch today.
Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

This tells me you you a clueless about life outside of your little bubble, there are plenty of areas and countries where you could go as a female and your rich tapestry of life would turn it a complete world of horror and terror, you really are naive.

PS. Your friend is 100% right and you throwing around a racecard like it's confetti is dispicable and you should be ashamed.

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:42

Gowlett · 25/07/2025 17:41

I think your friend had valid points, here.
But we’re not even allowed to talk about it.
She was having a fair enough conversation.
However, you’re entitled to your view too.

And yet, here we are……talking about it. Again.

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:41

Bubblegumicecreamm · 25/07/2025 17:37

Why don’t you check out the stats for sexual offences?

Given the incredibly low number of sexual offences reported, using this statistics to prove anything other than “white men are not held to account for their crimes against women nearly enough”, is a silly thing to do.

Gowlett · 25/07/2025 17:41

I think your friend had valid points, here.
But we’re not even allowed to talk about it.
She was having a fair enough conversation.
However, you’re entitled to your view too.

Vaxtable · 25/07/2025 17:40

Your friend is not racist and she has a point that I agree with

The one bad thing about this country is the way we say anyone can come and don’t worry about not embracing the culture or integration

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:39

I don’t think she is wrong about the issues around multi-culturalism, people not adopting local cultures, choosing to live near other like minded people. That’s human nature. What I’m not clear on is why she is suggesting all that is a problem. If someone wants to come to live in the UK and in their own homes and communities, have their own customs, what does that matter? As long as they follow our laws, what’s the problem?

Many people who complain about this seem more than happy to go abroad to anglicised areas, full of our own immigrants expats. In fact, our own empire, believed to be what made Britain “Great” was based on us exporting all of our customs to countries we thought had a lot to learn from us. Are we really surprised other nations do that too?

JMSA · 25/07/2025 17:38

Hmm, hate to say it, but I think she’s right.

Bubblegumicecreamm · 25/07/2025 17:37

CopperWhite · 25/07/2025 17:36

Men from Iran have a totally lovely view of women. 👀🙄

Afghanistani men also a lovely respect for women.

These are both racist statements.

Yes there are some governments around the world that do bad things, but we need to separate that from their citizens and diaspora otherwise we are both inaccurate and prejudice. We are constantly reminded that it is anti-Semitic to hold Israeli citizens responsible for the actions of their government so why doesn’t the same apply to Iranian and Afghani people?

Why don’t you check out the stats for sexual offences?

FedupMum2024 · 25/07/2025 17:36

Your friend is spot on. 100%.

You are extremely naive. I hope you don't have young daughters. The future in this country isn't looking too bright for them if you do.

ZanyMauveCat · 25/07/2025 17:36

Your friend isn't racist, and you are naive.

It's not racist to point out that people are more likely to seek out friends with similar cultural backgrounds, nor point out that certain people and their beliefs and behaviours may be detrimental to wider society. Common ground is important to cultures, it's like denying that Christmas is a cultural celebration more than it is religious nowadays in the UK.

It's racist to make assumptions about everyone from X culture and place, but it's not racist to have an informed discussion.

Eastendboysandwestendgirls · 25/07/2025 17:36

Many people do integrate successfully and seek to do so. Others absolutely do not - I work in an area where we have to be alert for children travelling over the summer holidays to countries where it is entirely possible they will be subjected to being married or have fgm. In some areas, people speak no English, despite being here for more than a generation, because they don't need to as their first language is the one of their community, shops, leisure. It is not racist to note these things, they are facts.

CopperWhite · 25/07/2025 17:36

Men from Iran have a totally lovely view of women. 👀🙄

Afghanistani men also a lovely respect for women.

These are both racist statements.

Yes there are some governments around the world that do bad things, but we need to separate that from their citizens and diaspora otherwise we are both inaccurate and prejudice. We are constantly reminded that it is anti-Semitic to hold Israeli citizens responsible for the actions of their government so why doesn’t the same apply to Iranian and Afghani people?

Bubblegumicecreamm · 25/07/2025 17:34

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:27

I see people from all walks of life going about their daily business. I don't see groups of people huddled together excluding others, I don't see people avoiding other people based on their perceived ethnicity.
I have never given other people's ethnicity a thought until lunch today.
Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

Would you mind giving a general area? I live in outer London and this is just NOT how it is and I live in a very diverse area.

BoredZelda · 25/07/2025 17:33

ThejoyofNC · 25/07/2025 16:49

Would you accept people into your life who believe that women are second class citizens who should be seen and not heard? How about people who think rape is fine if the victim isn't from your culture? Maybe people who think that men should be allowed multiple wives?

Your friend is right.

Like, for example, many of the white “Christian” groups?

LidlAmaretto · 25/07/2025 17:32

I agree with your friend. When people import their own cultures into the UK it is very difficult to manage. A large part of that is because there are people within that community who do not have the same rights as those of the general population. The people forced into marrying their illterate cousins in Pakistan and watching their children suffer from horrific genetic defects, FGM, refusal to allow women to leave the home without a male chaperone, refusal to allow women to learn English or to get jobs, having their votes stolen are the women from that community. Not White people. When people say objecting to to these beliefs are 'racist' they are pandering to the male elders in these communities. Not the entirety of that community.

loulouljh · 25/07/2025 17:30

I agree with her. My DH's family are immigrants.

zeddybrek · 25/07/2025 17:30

I'm Muslim and my parents are immigrants. I agree with your friend.

Ideally we like to think not but in reality people have segregated and continue those cultural behaviours in this country.

Also, she seems like she knows what she's talking about because it is the culture not religion we are talking about.

Also, it has not been easy to integrate.
My parents struggled to buy a house in a 'white' area and the estate agent told them it would be difficult beforehand.

My Dad bought the England football kit for my brother in the 80's and he was constantly told to go back where he came from and why was he wearing it.

So point being, those that did try to integrate, didn't have it easy and many just gave up. Hence isolated communities clinging on to where they feel safe and accepted.

There's more to this complex topic but overall I agree with your friend.

Anyahyacinth · 25/07/2025 17:29

Absentmindedsmile · 25/07/2025 17:06

https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/11/societies-that-treat-women-badly-are-poorer-and-less-stable

“A woman who drives a car will be killed,” says Sheikh Hazim Muhammad al-Manshad. He says it matter-of-factly, without raising his voice. The unwritten rules of his tribe, the al-Ghazi of southern Iraq, are clear. A woman who drives a car might meet a man. The very possibility is “a violation of her honour”. So her male relatives will kill her, with a knife or a bullet, and bury the body in a sand dune.

Yes of course. Eg. Men from Iran have a totally lovely view of women. 👀🙄

This is racist about Iranians of whom I know many and who do not have this view / belief..would you quote Andrew Tate about the UK?

Nousernamesleftatall · 25/07/2025 17:27

Your friend is right. The highest trust communities are those that are most homogenous… as Sweden found out after their open border experiment. It didn’t work and it wasn’t from lack of effort on the Swedes part. Crime shot up (rapes and bombs), no go areas etc. They are now paying the unproductive immigrants to leave, up to €30,000 to pack their bags.

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:27

ThejoyofNC · 25/07/2025 17:21

Right, so what have you seen to prove your friend wrong?

I see people from all walks of life going about their daily business. I don't see groups of people huddled together excluding others, I don't see people avoiding other people based on their perceived ethnicity.
I have never given other people's ethnicity a thought until lunch today.
Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

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