Is my best friend racist?

anyone who has travelled anywhere knows that every country has it's own culture. You can't always put your finger on it exactly, but we all know that British culture is different to French culture, which is different to German culture, which is different to Spanish culture, which is different to Egyptian culture, which is different to Nigerian culture, which is different to Australian culture, which is different to Japanese culture.... and on and on...

The thing is that you will downplay any examples of British culture that are given to you so it's pointless.

If you answered my question you might say something like pasta, catholicism, fast cars, history. Is that how an Italian would describe themselves?

People outside the UK seem be able to identify what they see as British culture. Why can't you accept there is such a thing?

Not sure why you felt the need to name change for this thread @Newnamefortouchysubject

Why couldn’t you have just posted it under your normal name?

That’s the first thing I noticed about the question you pose

This explain your naivety. Your friend is right, and this isn't racist. It's ridiculous how people who just talk common sense these days have the risk of being labeled racist. She is also absolutely right, you won't tolerate her difference of opinion, but you would tolerate different cultures, many of which treat women shockingly.

Apparently it's endlessly fascinating. We need thread after thread every single day to discuss immigration. It's not interesting.

That said, I think there are arguably are cities/ countries/communities where multiculturalism is viable and works perfectly well - take Singapore as an example. But it probably only works and is desirable in a minority of cases.

subscribe to those core values (equality of men/women, gay rights etc) why would you wish to live in a country where those are valued

because your own country and others with your culture are seriously corrupt and/or non democratic

There is so much to unpack. But I just want to point out one thing

"I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me"

But it does. If my neighbours regardless of colour hang out with their drug buddies it affects how much I enjoy my neighbourhood. If every day I hear my neighbour beating the shi* out of their partner, it affects me

If my neighbours are racists it surely affects me because am a black woman and it would have affected me if I was white because of the views I hold.

If my neighbours are kind (which my neighbours are, bless them) it makes me happier more comfy and makes me want to be kinder too.

If my non neighbours (the majority) in the country I live in vote a particular way it affects the direction the country goes so it affects me, and their vote is part of how they live, their beliefs etc. God know votes far away in America have affected me.

So societies become what they are because how your neighbours live does affect you.

Basically agree with her. I’m in Ireland and like seeing people from different backgrounds. But I don’t really like seeing people wearing certain religious costumes which is basically advertising the fact that their values are at odds with those held by the vast majority. Ireland is finally breaking free from centuries of Catholicism and becoming a non-religious dominated society where the vast majority have similar fairly inclusive core values. I think if you don’t subscribe to those core values (equality of men/women, gay rights etc) why would you wish to live in a country where those are valued.

I’ve lived in two Muslim countries and though individuals are polite and pleasant the underlying medieval culture of many people clashes with western values

Not keen on people discussing immigration eh? Interesting.

I'm surprised your friendship survived Brexit, to be honest, as many didn't and there is still a lot of animosity and division about that.

YABU by the way. She is expressing views that are at odds with multiculturalism. That's not the same as being racist or xenophobic.

The dominant culture, especially from the BBC but embedded throughout the public sector, is that multiculturalism was/is the 'norm', and 'right'.

So, we've had a generation or two of the liberal/middle-class establishment not feeling a need to defend multiculturalism, and now they're flummoxed.

Debates about multiculturalism are becoming sharper these days because globalisation itself is also under fire across the world, not just the UK.

Put another way, your friend is expressing a political and cultural view that's different to yours. Does that make you racist or xenophobic? No, of course not.

Please try to see the bigger picture. You and your friend are just part of a huge global conversation that's taking place right now, so keep on talking about it.

In my opinion the irony here is that British culture is how a lot of the other countries 'should' be according to their religion.

Respect, women's rights, etc all these things are of paramount importance in Islam for example. I can only comment on that, as that is my faith. But my culture is British. And the 2 can combine.

It is the culture of these other countries that is misaligned. They are not even practicing what they should be in their home countries.

By shutting down healthy and open debate there will be no progress.

Again from my own limited experience, it is typically men who use culture as an excuse to control women and has nothing to do with religion. Iran, Afghanistan being the obvious ones but there are so many more. Their control of women is culture not religion and let's not shy from saying it and raising awareness.

I'm actually pleased we can start to discuss the 2 topics, religion and culture, as 2 separate matters and appreciate the confusion that arises from the overlap.

I agree with your friend too.

I live in a community that years ago, welcomed others. In our case, it was people from eastern Europe. Some fled to escape the Nazis, others followed. They came to.places like ours because we had similar industry's to the ones they grown up and worked in.

And, of course, they initially banded together in our city. They spoke the same language, ate the same food ect. Makes sense to be with them.

Over time, their children integrated more and more, as did the children of the native (right word?) people.

Over time, multiculturalism becomes the norm. To expect it to happen overnight is a bit optimistic.

We still have Ukranian and Polish clubs around here. We also have Catholic clubs and Working Mens clubs. But I don't pick up on any animosity between these groups. Someone with a "foreign" sounding name may be third/ forth generation from our area.

What is the completely different way of life that she is so against? There is good and bad in all, including even - shock,horror - Western culture. Does she live in an ethnically diverse city? I do, and I certainly don't see any issues of isolationism and ghettoism here. Yes, you get areas that are more of one ethnicity or culture than another but that is an organic evolvement that happens when immigrants first go to a country and either naturally navigate to those areas because of the similarities to those who are already here, or it's where they can afford to live due to circumstance.

Nope she’s not racist. I completely agree with her.

Ha ha ha!

British people are not known for integrating, neither respecting other cultures when they go on holidays, literally all classes and time points from the Elgin Marbles to Benelmadena.

Why does ex-pat even exist as a class? Oh that’s right to say “…fuck them, I do what I want”

Having said that as a trying to integrate foreigner, it is really hard to fully integrate and takes a huge amount of effort, and I only live in a pluralistic European Country.

But then other countries don’t let immigrants rule the roost and drop major religious events, change language and customs in order to appease some 400 year old guilt.

You what now? Who cancelled your Christmas and changed your language and did you do a Daily Mail sad face about it? Did a Muslim eat your hamster too?

She literally said her friend is not anti immigration. She’s fine with people coming if they come here and want to become part of the culture here. The friend also questioned whether people gravitate towards people with the same culture as them so eventually group together making true blending (as opposed to just living side by side) impossible. That doesn’t mean she’s anti immigration. It doesn’t mean she’s racist. It doesn’t mean she’s anti other cultures. It just means she thinks it’s hard and it is.

if someone says that English people move to Spain and just congregate and don’t join in the Spanish culture are they racist? and what if they say some parts of Spain feel like a hot English town because there are so many English people speaking English there? Because English people say this all the time. Spanish people too. It’s true. And it isn’t very respectful to move to Spain and show a total disinterest in the culture and to just take over for your own comfort and convenience. So why should and English person not say the same about any other culture coming here?

if I went anywhere else in the world, I would go and learn their rules and culture. I wouldn’t always get it right and might find it hard to pick up the language but I’d try. But then other countries don’t let immigrants rule the roost and drop major religious events, change language and customs in order to appease some 400 year old guilt.

In response to 'newnamefortouchysubject', your friend's view seems to assume that people's views, beliefs, culture remain the same throughout a person's life. To me, UK culture (however you define it) has changed over decades and centuries. My views and beliefs have changed through personal experience including travel, living overseas, fresh evidence emerging from one year to the next. How many people change their mind frequently after they have new evidence? It may not be what they read in a research paper, or what they've seen on the news, it may be experiences from working with people from different cultural backgrounds (keeping in mind you can be comfortable working with colleagues of any ethnicity or cultural background perhaps same as your own but you may not want to socialize with them if they're personal beliefs differ vastly from your own but you'll never know that unless you have worked with them for a long time or had a serious problem or been in a life-threatening situation and had to find a way to deal with it or solve the problem. We are not born with a brain that stays the same for our whole lives. The brain changes. We change as individuals. If we didn't, very few would have issues in marriage because you would still view the person you married in the same way as you did when you first met them. Women would have remained chained to the kitchen sink forever without changing views and culture. I understand behaviours in some cultures are unlikely to ever be accepted by people of other cultures but it's interesting that children with different ethnicities, cultures and languages will play together without a problem. It's mainly adults who compare themselves to other adults and focus on their differences instead of similarities. I am not naive. People will always have other people they don't get on with but if your focused on a common work goal, it is possible to work with people even if you have different personal beliefs. Some people live with family who they despise but they have to find a way to live together because they have no choice and whilst they make think it's terrible, every day they'll be learning how to deal with people they find infuriating. That's a good skill to have.

Such simplistic bigoted thinking. He is one man. Not a country full of men who have been taught / surrounded by from birth (if after 1975) by such disgusting attitude towards women.

Obviously. That doesn’t cover their attitudes and lack of respect for women. And potential negative behaviours that whilst illegal, could still happen. And frankly coming from such a culture, they’re more likely to. To suggest otherwise is idiotic, really.

I agree with her
my parents are from the caribbean
and it is 100% true

there are too many nationalities/ culture for us all to every be ‘one’ culture

Because a modest dress doesn't challenge the freedom of a bikini wearing society