Is my best friend racist?

It’s interesting that you mention Ireland. I visited recently and was shocked at the change since my last visit. It’s now wholly multicultural. Very little ‘Irishness’ in evidence at all. People were lovely but frankly met no Irish.

Is it really a classic? I thought I was being quite original. By all means carry on, I was just letting you know it’s a bit out of date and you just aren’t going to be able to silence discussion like that anymore. Try persuasive arguments of integration into British society and examples of just how fantastic it’s going.

I agree with your friend. I think anyone who disagrees is very likely being disingenuous and possibly virtue signalling. Or is living in a bubble of their own.

As a Black woman, I agree with your friend.

Ahhhh, the classic ‘stop calling out bigotry, it’s cringey now’ defense. Tell you what - when Islamophobia stops being a thing, I’ll stop pointing it out. Until then, sorry if accuracy offends your aesthetic! ✌🏽

God, I can't believe I forgot the Catholic Church in general with its massive volume of child abuse scandals. Or the Anglican for that matter. Or is child abuse in the Anglican church different because it's "British Culture"?

Christian fundamentalists, whether they be American MAGA nutjobs or homegrown cults (have you ever heard how the Plymouth Brethren expect their women to dress and behave, or the hushing up of child abuse accusations?)

Strict Orthodox Jewish communities (similar issues with lack of integration and oppression of women)

Higher caste BJP supporting Hindus, currently discriminating against Muslims, Sikhs and lower caste Hindus, to the point of causing riots in this country.

Etcetera.

So she probably has a more realistic view.

Obviously, she's correct. I grew up in a home counties town with a very large 'islamist' population - as in, we had the most people who ran off to join isis in the UK at one point. I went to a grammar school, and was very 'lefty'. I absolutely believed in muticulturalism, and was of course proud of the fact I had 'friends' from different cultures. Proud of the fact I 'tolerated them'.

This was long before hijabs were really a thing and you wouldn't usually have been able to even tell someone was muslim until they told you. Nowadays the women shuffle along in burkhas or long black robes with only their faces uncovered. I no longer live there, but drive through occasionally as my father still lives in a nearby village. It's not safe nowadays though, especially for women, so I wouldn't ever think to stop. My old village is nicer than ever though, they've just installed a very smart new playground and the common's busier than ever. Awesome farm shop just down the road, and a great new coffee shop in the neighbouring village with yummy mozzarella and parma ham focaccias, and homemade brownies. Occasionally, there are even non-white people. So we can all feel terribly proud of tolerating them.

I think it was the grooming gangs that first made me question my 'multiculturalism is great' stance. When I remembered the gangs of immigrant men who would hang around the shopping centre, catcalling us, following us or shouting abuse at us. When we were 13/14, and in school uniform. I remembered some girls were known to hang around with these men, and we called them sluts. I remember one girl, again about 13/14, in her puffa jacket (don't know why I remember the puffa, other than I think we thought that was 'common' at the time). I remembered seeing her in the centre of a group of much older males of 'immigrant-origin'. The males were grinning and laughing. And she looked embarrassed. Probably because I sneered at her, as I thought she was a slut. I had no idea what was likely happening to her, or what 'slut' even meant. I just knew that it meant she was 'rough'.

I also remembered the muslim man (Zulf - cool name) I worked with, who was sweet and funny and charming, and very into aftershave so always smelt amazing. And who had two white girlfriends, one who he told he loved and wanted to marry, and was only delaying until his grandparents died as they were very old-fashioned. And he was being told by his parents he had to go to Pakistan to marry (he would have been late-mid 20s), and I laughingly asked if he was going to tell his adoring girlfriend. And he laughed back, and said "white girls are for fucking, but you've got to marry a muslim". And we both laughed. I'm a white girl.

And then I remembered that I lost touch with the bright, funny muslim girls (that I'd been so proud of being friends with) when we turned 17/18 and my white friends and I had discovered the pub. None of them went to university, they married young, and soon had children.

Finally, I remembered occasional women of 'immigrant origin' I'd encountered who I'd considered horribly racist, and certainly not the sort of people I'd want to be associated with. They grew up in these segregated 'communities' and gone through hell attempting to escape. They used the 'P' word and said that the only abuse they'd ever received was from these males who would abuse them verbally and physically and demand they put on some 'modest' clothing, and behave like proper muslims. They said they got away because they were fortunate enough to have fathers (not just mothers) who wanted more for them. I of course considered both their views and language extremely bigoted.

But now I've remembered, I don't believe in multiculturalism. I don't believe a society is just where a little girl can grow up in one house being told she can do anything at all and wear anything at all and be anything at all can live next door to a little girl who is told she must behave and dress in a certain way or she will bring shame upon the family, or be asking to be raped, or even murdered. I believe society is racist when we turn a blind eye to non-white parents treating their children in a way that would see white parents taken to court. I believe it is extremely dangerous when we are fine with millions of children (especially boys) being told that a female who does not 'cover herself' is a whore, a lesser being, who is asking for sex and should be treated with contempt. It seems very obvious when written down! And yet... it's contentious.

I have friends of all 'colours' who have been born and raised in Britain, or elsewhere, with absolutely no 'British blood'. And who are absolutely 100% British. Who, ironically, have (or their parents have) moved here because they wanted to get away from 'their own' culture, and embrace western values.

This is, and has never ever, been about skin colour. This is entirely about culture. And thank god we're waking up to it.

(Sorry for lecture! I've been waiting a long time to admit this, though still felt the need to change my name... TL;DR I agree with 'the friend', multiculturalism was always obviously bound to bring nothing but misery and horror.)

Completely agree

It’s not so much an expiration date as it’s just not effective anymore and a bit cringey. If you want to win people over to your rather odd world view (IMO) then you can do it with persuasive arguments rather than lame attempts to shut down discussion.

How do you integrate cultures that believe women who show some leg are to blame if men are attracted to them?
The trouble is some of these are soooo radically different, there is no such thing as feminism in their cultures.
I agree with your friend, it’s refreshingly honest.

Do you live in a city? I agree with the picture you paint, but the reality is that there are suburbs I can drive to in 5 mins where I don’t speak the language and feel very unwelcome because I don’t wear the same clothes or practice the same religion as every person who lives there.

The problem isn’t multiculturalism, is that there are cultures that are choosing not to integrate which doesn’t result in the beautiful multicultural society you talk about.

I agree with the friend.

Sorry, didn’t realise calling out bigotry had an expiration date. Should I check the ‘acceptable outrage’ calendar next time?

What religions do you think should have the finger pointed at them?

Going straight to the isms and phobias to shut down dialogue is so 2019.

But living in an area and just visiting it are completely different things!

You are commenting on something where you have no experience

i'm actually really taken aback by that.

Your friend is right that integration is key. Learning the language, abiding by the law, respecting the traditions of others.

Immigrants will become fluent faster and understand our cultural norms quicker if native English speakers take the initiative to speak with them on a regular basis.

How can they understand the nuance of our values and social norms if they don’t have any British friends?

People moan about immigrants sticking together, but that is a perfectly rational response when the native population is unfriendly and your English isn’t good enough yet.

So I would say your friend is not being racist, but she is making sweeping generalisations about the culture and values of immigrants that don’t sound rooted in lived experience.

It is, most will accept other countries do have a culture and then we do too. We’re not the only ones without it.

She is correct

These beliefs aren’t held by all of any group though. They aren’t based on religion. I have friends who come from the background you are thinking of and none of them think like that.

I don’t think it’s racism and I believe your friend is right. I moved to this country from the US although ethnically from South Asia and not Muslim. I moved here because Britain offered British / Western values as well as an opportunity to improve my earnings power. It was not to cling to people from my own ethnicity but to benefit from what Britain and british culture had to offer and to contribute to it in return for being given the opportunity to live here.

Over time, I have become very disillusioned with what has been happening in the UK. Multi-culturalism has been pushed as a religion and anyone speaking against it (much like the transgender movement) has been called a racist, right-wing and generally dismissed. Multi-culturalism clearly has its limits and there can never be full integration of cultures as that’s practically impossible. However when a government (Europe included) refuse to see the negative changes taking place in British society as a result of migrants (illegal mainly) who come to the UK with very different goals - not to integrate, and not because of British culture and values - but to just make money and further bring cultural practices that are completely at odds with Western values - it’s foolish and very dangerous to stick one’s head in the hand and keep ‘canceling’ anyone who thinks otherwise as a racist.

To me it’s exactly as naive, dangerous and foolhardy as propagating the ideology key to the transgender movement (flying in the face of reality) “assigned male/female at birth”. Not speaking up against this which was clearly complete nonsense and at odds with reality, had disastrous consequences for women’s rights everywhere. In the same way, calling anyone who objects to migration to the UK in its current form a racist could have equally dangerous consequences to the general population of this country.

People like this tend to have strict conservative views on how women should live (Ie anti single mums) anyway

Your friend is right and you're a boring bigot trotting out "racist" to anyone who doesn't have your views.

Where did I state that I disagree? I’m basing my post on the replies from some members here automatically jumping on the Muslim hate wagon, when nothing is to say that this was regarding Muslims in the first place. There are many more religions within the UK now, yet fingers get pointed to Muslims time and time again.