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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Linzi2377 · 25/07/2025 23:46

theres a sign in Australia that says “fit in or fuck off” ..your friend is right

ViciousCurrentBun · 25/07/2025 23:45

Of course she is correct, I’m the daughter of an immigrant and have lived in London and Birmingham.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:44

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:39

Dude, calm down I have no idea what you mean. I’ve re-read what you quoted and I can’t see anything where I suggested culture didn’t exist? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

You haven't explained culture to me even though you think it exists. Logic isn't your strength.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:41

Isitreallysohard · 25/07/2025 23:35

Tell her it's a pity the English weren't the same when they invaded other people's countries, they certainly didn't embrace others cultures. They were the original boat people afterall

Bingo - British Empire.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:41

Isitreallysohard · 25/07/2025 23:35

Tell her it's a pity the English weren't the same when they invaded other people's countries, they certainly didn't embrace others cultures. They were the original boat people afterall

The Wampanoag people, the “People of the First Light,” are responsible for saving the Pilgrims from starvation and death during the harsh winter of 1620–21. @Isitreallysohard

Such a pity some would rather shoot down boats today

GAJLY · 25/07/2025 23:41

Your friend is right. My grandparents are immigrants and I agree with her. It has nothing to do with rasicim.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:39

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:34

You most certainly do understand. But you know you've lost the argument. Pitiful and uneducated response, with little respect for yourself.

Dude, calm down I have no idea what you mean. I’ve re-read what you quoted and I can’t see anything where I suggested culture didn’t exist? I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Zov · 25/07/2025 23:37

No, she is not racist. She makes some valid points.

Isitreallysohard · 25/07/2025 23:35

Tell her it's a pity the English weren't the same when they invaded other people's countries, they certainly didn't embrace others cultures. They were the original boat people afterall

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:34

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:29

I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about.

You most certainly do understand. But you know you've lost the argument. Pitiful and uneducated response, with little respect for yourself.

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 23:33

NorthXNorthWest · 25/07/2025 23:22

Your post is offensive. You have explained something in great detail, just not what you think you did.

Ah, not much interest in explaining yourself. Guessing you're still in the 'determined not to believe what I don't want to be true' camp. Else you would have come up with some sort of sensible argument. I was in the same camp, once. I learnt to listen, and reflect, and I realised I was wrong. It hurt, and I still feel the need to name change to admit it! Which I am ashamed about. Not ashamed of my post though, as I know that to be true. Why don't you try posting your own scary experiences where you've doubted multiculturalism? If you need to use a false name, that's ok. We've been taught something that's turned out to be total bollocks. That's not our fault. But it is our fault if we continue to protest it when we know it to be untrue, and when we know the harm that it's is causing.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:29

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:25

Are you suggesting that culture doesn't exist? Trying to understand.

I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about.

JustSawJohnny · 25/07/2025 23:27

I think she's largely chatting shit, but I have black & Muslim friends so I guess I'm not as ignorant as her.

There are a million more likenesses than differences between all cultures but some people like to dwell on the latter.

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 23:26

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 23:09

Love how ‘respectful discussion’ suddenly means tone-policing while trying to mock the very point you asked for. Multiculturalism is a success, sorry if that reality clashes with your nostalgia for a version of Britain that only existed in your imagination.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it doesn't look like it's going great... Surely it's only a success if the majority deem it a success? Or is it up to just you to decide?!

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:25

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:18

I only informed you that using ism and phobias to shut down discussion is very 2019 and not effective anymore. You took my point onboard, I’m taking that as a win. You’re starting to loose me a bit on the other stuff.

I regard multiculturalism as an utter failure and one I hope that will be put right. I understand why you think it’s a success, read the comments with an open mind and you might start to understand the other side.

Edited

Are you suggesting that culture doesn't exist? Trying to understand.

Chiseltip · 25/07/2025 23:25

mugglewump · 25/07/2025 16:54

Racist: likely, xenophobic: certainly and probably islamophobic too. What are these vastly different beliefs and values that she refers to? I would say these people of 'other cultures' all value and seek to offer human kindness, respect to others and a desire to do good. I would like to think these are part of British culture too except when I read anti-immigration stuff I really have to question what people in this country really think.

You've never travelled have you . .

NorthXNorthWest · 25/07/2025 23:22

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 23:19

I find your response extremely offensive. I have explained in great detail why I have reached the opinion I have reached, and you accuse me of lying. The reason I went into detail is that I have entirely changed my outlook, and I am very conscious of that. If I evoke stereotypes, why do you think that may be? Possibly I'm not the only person who has encountered what I've encountered. Though I imagine there are many who have seen what I've seen and have not had the inclination/courage to reconsider their position.

I don't know whether you are someone who knows I am telling the truth and needs to pretend I'm lying, or whether you are someone who suspects I am telling the truth and very much wants me to be lying. But I don't believe that anyone who is certain I am lying would bother to respond without rebuttal, as they would think what I've experienced is entirely justifiable. And yet, you are not trying to defend what I have described as somehow acceptable behaviour. Just pretending I must surely, definitely be making it all up, with no explanation as to why you've reached that conclusion.

So why are you protecting what you know to be wrong?

(Very, very happy to provide proof, btw.)

Your post is offensive. You have explained something in great detail, just not what you think you did.

Livelovebehappy · 25/07/2025 23:21

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 23:09

Love how ‘respectful discussion’ suddenly means tone-policing while trying to mock the very point you asked for. Multiculturalism is a success, sorry if that reality clashes with your nostalgia for a version of Britain that only existed in your imagination.

How has it been a success? If it's such a success why is there so much discontent with immigration at the moment from all sections of society? There's only so much multiculterism that can be absorbed before the whole fabric of our society starts to implode. I don't hear anyone saying its been a success - either the immigrants who have settled here are unhappy as they think the UK is institutionally racist, or the opposite side feel there's no attempt at integration by immigrants. So no-one is happy it seems....

Gongpostal · 25/07/2025 23:20

'your friend' and @bestchooseanother nail the position of the UK ATM perfectly. I have friends that grew up in so called multicultural areas that have left to escape the abuse and racism targeted at them. I have relatives that now are so outnumbered by other cultures they cannot be outside at certain times of the day. I'm sorry to say that the groups that this does concur towards are many of the people coming into this country from areas where fundamental islam is major religion. It's not about being phobic of a religion or even not agreeing with it. It's about how these archaic versions of theses values that these people have have been brought up with. As others have said we have for many years been harmonious with various cultures and religions, but in the last 20 plus years (and recently moreso) been inundated with people whose culture/religion/way of life is really not compatible with the country that they have chosen to make their home in.My opinion is in no way directed at people of any religion or culture that have come here legally and are happy to integrate whilst keeping their own identity. If that makes me racist ( you can't be racist against a religion) islamaphobic ( I'm not afraid of a religion) or whatever the new supposed insult is? I'm really not bothered! These words have no value anymore.

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 23:19

NorthXNorthWest · 25/07/2025 22:51

So many lazy stereotypes

I find your response extremely offensive. I have explained in great detail why I have reached the opinion I have reached, and you accuse me of lying. The reason I went into detail is that I have entirely changed my outlook, and I am very conscious of that. If I evoke stereotypes, why do you think that may be? Possibly I'm not the only person who has encountered what I've encountered. Though I imagine there are many who have seen what I've seen and have not had the inclination/courage to reconsider their position.

I don't know whether you are someone who knows I am telling the truth and needs to pretend I'm lying, or whether you are someone who suspects I am telling the truth and very much wants me to be lying. But I don't believe that anyone who is certain I am lying would bother to respond without rebuttal, as they would think what I've experienced is entirely justifiable. And yet, you are not trying to defend what I have described as somehow acceptable behaviour. Just pretending I must surely, definitely be making it all up, with no explanation as to why you've reached that conclusion.

So why are you protecting what you know to be wrong?

(Very, very happy to provide proof, btw.)

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:18

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 23:09

Love how ‘respectful discussion’ suddenly means tone-policing while trying to mock the very point you asked for. Multiculturalism is a success, sorry if that reality clashes with your nostalgia for a version of Britain that only existed in your imagination.

I only informed you that using ism and phobias to shut down discussion is very 2019 and not effective anymore. You took my point onboard, I’m taking that as a win. You’re starting to loose me a bit on the other stuff.

I regard multiculturalism as an utter failure and one I hope that will be put right. I understand why you think it’s a success, read the comments with an open mind and you might start to understand the other side.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:16

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:05

So the ‘melting pot of culture’ route. Wow, what an amazing and surprising argument.

Well certainly it was enriched with travel and industrial expansion in the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. Music, food, architecture, science, workers and innovation. Let's not forget that influence and contribution. It's what makes Britain Great.

Livelovebehappy · 25/07/2025 23:13

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 22:35

Silence discussion? Goodness. If your idea of ‘discussion’ is airing thinly veiled bigotry and expecting polite applause, then yes, I’ll keep ‘silencing’ that all day. And since you asked for persuasive arguments: Muslims are integrated. We build your NHS, teach your kids, pay your taxes, and still have to prove our ‘Britishness’ to people whose entire personality is being uncomfortable with diversity. Try harder.

Edited

Which might partially explain why the NHS and education are in a mess. My mother was in hospital earlier this year, her allocated nurse barely spoke English. Totally inappropriate.

MerryPeachPoet · 25/07/2025 23:09

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 22:57

Attempt to silence discussion, like I said it’s just not going to work anymore.

Now you’re getting it, putting forward respectful arguments rather than attempting to shut down other opinions is part of British culture. Very persuasive arguments. I’m sold, multiculturalism is a huge success.

Love how ‘respectful discussion’ suddenly means tone-policing while trying to mock the very point you asked for. Multiculturalism is a success, sorry if that reality clashes with your nostalgia for a version of Britain that only existed in your imagination.

JLou08 · 25/07/2025 23:08

How is it racist? What group is she being racist towards? She said different cultures can't mix, she hasn't isolated and discriminated against one race.
I don't agree with her but she isn't racist, she's put across her views which don't taget one race. People like you are what contributes to the tensions. People are shut up by being called racist so the actual racists use the argument that they can't say anything without being called racist.