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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
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9
summershere99 · 26/07/2025 01:21

Absentmindedsmile · 25/07/2025 17:08

Afghanistani men also a lovely respect for women. Nothing to worry about.

  • Taliban decrees seek to silence women in public, bar them from education above the age of 12, enforce head-to-toe coverings and restrict their travel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c0l16424w1pt

This is the view of the Taliban. This is most definitely not the view of all Afghani men. But the issue many people have is being able to separate the view of a country’s leaders from its citizens. I know some families from Afghanistan. The reason they are in the UK and US is because they don’t want to live under Taliban rule, they want their daughters to have an education!

ThatLilacLurker · 26/07/2025 01:13

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:27

I see people from all walks of life going about their daily business. I don't see groups of people huddled together excluding others, I don't see people avoiding other people based on their perceived ethnicity.
I have never given other people's ethnicity a thought until lunch today.
Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

You have literally said in a previous comment: "I have no direct experience of different ethnicities, except what I hear from other people". So you have no reason or evidence to think yout friend is wrong other than virtue signalling.

I went to Istanbul recently and its disrespectful there to visit certain places and show knees or shoulders. I followed their rules and standards as I was in their culture.

placemats · 26/07/2025 01:11

bestchooseanother · 26/07/2025 00:54

Again, your post makes no sense :(

I've travelled extremely widely, which has reiterated the importance of culture. Ethiopians are very different to Egyptians, who are very different to Eritreans, who are very different to Ecuadorians (all of whom I've visited). I loved Azerbaijan, but it definitely was distinct from Australia, and both were certainly not Albania. If you really have managed to travel all the way across even just the one single continent (!), you surely must have noticed a difference in locations? Just going from SE England to E England is culturally distinct, so unless you're only staying in resorts focussed entirely on your own culture, you would have seen a difference. If you really, genuinely, have managed to get all the way from Portugal to Poland, and from Iceland to Ireland to Ikaria, and not noticed any kind of difference in behaviour, customs, food etc, I suggest either working on mindfulness or expanding your perspective. I certainly ate very different food in France to Finland! Didn't you? Was Sweden really the same as Spain to you? Maybe all just white people...

What is your problem? I've travelled via train, boat, car and plane throughout Europe. Of course there's a difference in each country, notwithstanding the language barrier, though being Northern Irish helped when struggling say to communicate in the Netherlands. I love Sicilian food for it's diversity of flavours. Spain is beautiful but there's a huge difference between North and South, never mind Catalonia.

Would you like me to expand on Nordic countries where the welcome was great? I travel. Have done extensively throughout the Atlantic Islands of Britain and Ireland.

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:57

Morningsleepin · 26/07/2025 00:31

Where would you lot like the Muslims to go to? They have lived peacefully among you for decades but now you see them as a threat. They can't go to Palestine and they can't go to Syria or Libya

The Muslim community has lived here for centuries as have people from the continent of Africa. Plus those from the continents of Europe, the America's and Asia.

bestchooseanother · 26/07/2025 00:54

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:33

I've travelled all over Europe @bestchooseanother. You haven't obviously. Plus I'm fluent in three languages.

Again, your post makes no sense :(

I've travelled extremely widely, which has reiterated the importance of culture. Ethiopians are very different to Egyptians, who are very different to Eritreans, who are very different to Ecuadorians (all of whom I've visited). I loved Azerbaijan, but it definitely was distinct from Australia, and both were certainly not Albania. If you really have managed to travel all the way across even just the one single continent (!), you surely must have noticed a difference in locations? Just going from SE England to E England is culturally distinct, so unless you're only staying in resorts focussed entirely on your own culture, you would have seen a difference. If you really, genuinely, have managed to get all the way from Portugal to Poland, and from Iceland to Ireland to Ikaria, and not noticed any kind of difference in behaviour, customs, food etc, I suggest either working on mindfulness or expanding your perspective. I certainly ate very different food in France to Finland! Didn't you? Was Sweden really the same as Spain to you? Maybe all just white people...

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:33

I've travelled all over Europe @bestchooseanother. You haven't obviously. Plus I'm fluent in three languages.

Morningsleepin · 26/07/2025 00:31

Where would you lot like the Muslims to go to? They have lived peacefully among you for decades but now you see them as a threat. They can't go to Palestine and they can't go to Syria or Libya

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:29

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 00:10

One very distict thing about British culture is how many of you profess absolute loathing for your own country, and think it's done the worst things ever.

I wonder if that's some sort of exceptionalism that's been turned on it's head?

I'm very happy with my Irish heritage and Welsh/Scottish connections. I have English born children, nephews, nieces and cousins. That's British.

bestchooseanother · 26/07/2025 00:26

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:02

I've never seen anyone wearing a bikini on an aeroplane @pearcrumblee

I feel you think you're coming across as clever, or funny (?!), but you're really not making much sense. Who mentioned bikinis on aeroplanes?! You can't seriously not understand the notion of culture? I assume you've not travelled much, which is of course not your fault. But until you can get abroad, maybe try googling - or a dictionary. Culture is a very standard concept and central to much academic study, from anthropology to sociology to philosophy. Have you really never encountered the concept before?! Surprised if you even made it to GCSE without learning about culture, tbh.

Do you really not notice any difference at all between Afghanistanis and Austrians? Between remote, uncontacted Brazilian tribes and a regular, Brazilian middle-class lawyer? Between the Eritreans and the English? There's nothing at all in how they live day to day that would distinguish them to you?! Either you're shockingly observant or you're... There are plenty of online resources, probably best to try and educate yourself before coming onto a grownups' forum where people may not have time for childish ignorance. Sorry to be rude, but this is a very serious topic and I'm not sure your protestations of naivety are particularly helpful. If you have something sensible to say it's probably best to just say it. If you genuinely don't understand the concept, GIYF.

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:16

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 00:07

So British culture is not a thing then. Glad you agree with me.

Do you think it's more likely that Britain, uniquely on the globe, somehow has now culture, or that you're doing the equivalent of not being able to hear your own accent?

I'm an an immigrant and grew up loving British films and tv. Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Ab Fab, even the daft Carry On films. It was so distinct from the American stuff.

Fawlty Towers with the stereotype dumb Irishman and equally dumb Spanish waiter which was deliberate to emphasise the petty bigotry of the small minded English man. Don't get me wrong Flowery Twats and you'll have to sew them back on first are phrases I will take to my grave.

Hated Love thy Neighbour, Jimmy feckin Saville and The Black and White Minstrel show.

Shakeoffyourchains · 26/07/2025 00:14

pearcrumblee · 25/07/2025 23:58

Try going to Saudi Arabia or Dubai in a bikini, you would be thrown in prison. They absolutely will not accept multiculturalism there.

It is not racist to say that other cultures living in this country should integrate and embrace our British values. It has nothing to do with skin colour.

Edited

Given the rates VAWG, child sexual abuse, public disorder, and drug/alcohol misuse among many white British people, I’m not entirely convinced it’s a culture we should be attempting to force others to embrace tbh.

Also, you do know that Saudi and the UAE literally have whole zones where Western norms are prioritised over their own cultural values to accommodate expats and tourists, right??

Can only imagine the absolute meltdown from the right if someone proposed building something similar for Muslims or other immigrants here.

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 00:10

One very distict thing about British culture is how many of you profess absolute loathing for your own country, and think it's done the worst things ever.

I wonder if that's some sort of exceptionalism that's been turned on it's head?

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 00:07

So British culture is not a thing then. Glad you agree with me.

Do you think it's more likely that Britain, uniquely on the globe, somehow has now culture, or that you're doing the equivalent of not being able to hear your own accent?

I'm an an immigrant and grew up loving British films and tv. Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, Ab Fab, even the daft Carry On films. It was so distinct from the American stuff.

crackofdoom · 26/07/2025 00:04

Livelovebehappy · 25/07/2025 23:06

Jim'll fix it was last century. Where have you been since then?

He died in 2011, and even after his death people were refusing to believe what he'd done. Because he was a national treasure and did so much for charity. Best of British, wasn't he.

placemats · 26/07/2025 00:02

I've never seen anyone wearing a bikini on an aeroplane @pearcrumblee

pearcrumblee · 25/07/2025 23:58

Try going to Saudi Arabia or Dubai in a bikini, you would be thrown in prison. They absolutely will not accept multiculturalism there.

It is not racist to say that other cultures living in this country should integrate and embrace our British values. It has nothing to do with skin colour.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:56

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:55

So British culture is not a thing then. Glad you agree with me.

Ok. Great chat.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:55

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:51

the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

So British culture is not a thing then. Glad you agree with me.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:53

Linzi2377 · 25/07/2025 23:46

theres a sign in Australia that says “fit in or fuck off” ..your friend is right

Was that to the jimmigrants or ten pound poms that emigrated to Australia from the UK during the 1960s/70s?

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:51

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:49

What does culture mean?

the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

Daisymae55 · 25/07/2025 23:50

Honestly I agree with her

Trying to be as vague as possible here, but where I live is very multicultural, with 2 dominant cultures that absolutely do not intergrate at all. I go to a toddler group and there’s literally one demographic on one side of the room and another on the other. It’s painfully awkward. We’re a mixed race family that fits with neither demographic which makes it more painful.

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:49

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:46

I’m going to give you one more chance to make sense. What are you trying to say/ask me?

What does culture mean?

SpaceRaccoon · 25/07/2025 23:47

There are a million more likenesses than differences between all cultures but some people like to dwell on the latter.

For the educated middle-classes, definitely. Those are exactly the kind of immigrants that have a positive net effect, socially and financially. And due to globalisation, they'll fit in just fine.

However, it's not realistic to think this will be the case for people with little or no education. In small amounts, again probably fine, the next generation will integrate, but when you have large numbers, the integration stops, and instead you have a ghettoisation effect, and knock-on resentment and social tensions, particularly in countries like the UK with a generous welfare system.

And I do think it's a bit naive to think there's more likeness than difference between cultures - there are literally cultures, on this planet today, that let a woman with an unsterile, rusty implement remove their eight year old daughters' genitals with no analgesia, or sell their little girls to middle-aged men as "wives".
There are countries where walking the streets as a Western woman is a stressful, unpleasant experience of leering and catcalls, at best - any "worst place to visit" thread on here names Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt etc again and again.

So what happens if very large numbers of people from those communities, not degree-educated professionals, all arrive at once - is this honestly going to be perceived as a positive by local communities, and will you perceive them as racist for not finding it positive?

Alifemoreordinary123 · 25/07/2025 23:46

I agree with her. I respect different cultures and all the differences in ways of life that they bring. However, I don’t think cultures assimilate well in practice - though I think some mutual evolution is possible if the conditions are right. If you move to live in a different culture, I think you should look to contribute to the new culture in all the main ways (learn the language, respect the laws etc). That doesn’t mean giving up your own identify (what you wish to eat, how you wish to worship and, to a degree, how you dress) but it does mean accepting that you live in a different culture and that there will be some aspects that look and feel different that you need to adjust to rather than expecting that culture to cater for every difference.

ThatBoldBear · 25/07/2025 23:46

placemats · 25/07/2025 23:44

You haven't explained culture to me even though you think it exists. Logic isn't your strength.

I’m going to give you one more chance to make sense. What are you trying to say/ask me?

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