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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
NorthXNorthWest · 26/07/2025 09:09

bestchooseanother · 25/07/2025 23:33

Ah, not much interest in explaining yourself. Guessing you're still in the 'determined not to believe what I don't want to be true' camp. Else you would have come up with some sort of sensible argument. I was in the same camp, once. I learnt to listen, and reflect, and I realised I was wrong. It hurt, and I still feel the need to name change to admit it! Which I am ashamed about. Not ashamed of my post though, as I know that to be true. Why don't you try posting your own scary experiences where you've doubted multiculturalism? If you need to use a false name, that's ok. We've been taught something that's turned out to be total bollocks. That's not our fault. But it is our fault if we continue to protest it when we know it to be untrue, and when we know the harm that it's is causing.

I did explain myself. Much of what causes conflict is founded in misogyny.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:09

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 08:12

I find the irony stunning that you think that British people adapt to the norms of the places they go.

But most do, they tend to be quite a rule following bunch.

Sure, that’s why Brits have a reputation of hooliganism abroad,

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:08

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 08:26

What is this obsession you have with people’s skin colour?

When white people say that there is zero integration of immigrants in British culture, it can only mean they stick to their white culture and don’t socialise outside of it.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/07/2025 09:07

lljkk · 26/07/2025 08:43

I'm American & still believe in the melting pot with diversity enriches us all. That tolerance and open-mindedness and diversity is not just possible but the ideal in a society that is democratic rather than majoritarian. There are still absolute standards regardless of cultural norms, but these should be worked out collaboratively and with high cross- cultural consensus not imposed by the 'majority'.

There are so many definitions of racist I can't comment on what OP asked.

The problem with the melting pot theory is that it's always assumed that new immigrants to western societies will end up adopting the 'superior' liberal culture that they move to. But what has happened, in many countries, is that newer arrivals do not adopt the norms of their new home but wish to impose the norms of their old home. Not in all cases, obviously, but in enough of them that it causes tensions between different racial, religious and cultural groups.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:06

GoodPudding · 26/07/2025 07:55

So c.1% of total charges were of Afghans.

Given that the total number of Afghans in the UK as of 2024 was 29,000, or 0.05% of the population, that rate is 20 times higher than average!

That doesn’t mean Afghans are innately bad people. However, they are culturally conditioned to view women as inferior. There will doubtless be sub-cultures of white English people where you’ll have more prevalent rates of sex crime.

In fact, an insistence that race and culture are indistinguishable, is actually far more racist!

Trying to present 19 Afghans as the problem is absurd.

There were 200,000 sex offences in the year up to 2023. The vast majority were by white men.

its5oclocksomewheresurely · 26/07/2025 09:04

I'm so sick of these people who shout "racism" at every opportunity!

Your friend is right - it is exceptionally naive to think that we can mix safely with the men who are coming in on the boats. Do you know, that since all this mass migration, rape has increased by 800% in 2 years? Do you know that these men who are holed up in hotels, often follow teenage girls home from school, trying to get with them?

Do you know that in some cultures, girls get married at the age of 9, to men in their 40's? In Iran, women are no longer allowed to sing, even within their own homes. Girls are not allowed to go to school. In some cultures, if a woman is raped, she is stoned to death because it's her fault.

Ever heard of Lara Logan, and what happened to her in Egypt? - if not look it up. Have a sick bucket ready. And ask yourself how hundreds of men all violated her, with not one trying to stop the ordeal.

Who the FUCK would even want to integrate with these "cultures"?

Honestly, I thank my lucky stars that I live in Scotland. I would feel safer and more at home in Australia than London these days.

Neemie · 26/07/2025 09:02

I’m not sure that labelling it as racism gets you anywhere.

Absentmindedsmile · 26/07/2025 09:01

GoodPudding · 26/07/2025 07:55

So c.1% of total charges were of Afghans.

Given that the total number of Afghans in the UK as of 2024 was 29,000, or 0.05% of the population, that rate is 20 times higher than average!

That doesn’t mean Afghans are innately bad people. However, they are culturally conditioned to view women as inferior. There will doubtless be sub-cultures of white English people where you’ll have more prevalent rates of sex crime.

In fact, an insistence that race and culture are indistinguishable, is actually far more racist!

💯

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 08:43

u3ername · 26/07/2025 08:29

Sex-grooming is not part of any culture. It’s a crime and should be punished. @goodpudding

Edited

Are you sure about that? It’s very much been a cultural issue for hundreds if not 1000s of years, from the Vikings through to ISIS.

lljkk · 26/07/2025 08:43

I'm American & still believe in the melting pot with diversity enriches us all. That tolerance and open-mindedness and diversity is not just possible but the ideal in a society that is democratic rather than majoritarian. There are still absolute standards regardless of cultural norms, but these should be worked out collaboratively and with high cross- cultural consensus not imposed by the 'majority'.

There are so many definitions of racist I can't comment on what OP asked.

PrissyGalore · 26/07/2025 08:42

I agree with her. Like many definitions these days, the definition of racism has widened so much it’s just a lazy insult flung around to silence people who don’t want to see certain practices in the UK.

u3ername · 26/07/2025 08:29

Sex-grooming is not part of any culture. It’s a crime and should be punished. @goodpudding

Genevieva · 26/07/2025 08:28

parietal · 26/07/2025 07:48

America is a nation of immigrants (mostly). They have specific things (4th July, pledge of allegiance at school) to integrate new immigrants into American culture and it largely works.

the UK could welcome migrants and make it possible for them to integrate if we welcomed people better

America is a new world country that created an origin story for itself based on immigration, opportunity and freedom to those who work hard and look after themselves. So while it has a heritage based on European culture, its situation and sense of self is entirely different. Europe is part of the old world. To the extent European stories have origin stories, they are lost on the mists of time and tell the history of an ethnic group. For England that goes back to King Arthur, Merlin and Excalibur, but eventually blends with verifiable history. For the Italians it goes back to Romulus and Remus being raised by wolves. You can’t just become a part of a group of people with shared ancestry in the same way you can become part of a group of people with a shared migration story. You can be adopted by them. You children can marry them and your grandchildren can be one of them, but you’ll always be from somewhere else. We’ve had attempts recently to copy America by celebrating Windrush, but it’s partially backfired because Britain wasn’t built or even rebuilt after World War Two and it gaslights the native population. Integration is really the only way.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 08:26

nomas · 26/07/2025 07:07

Tell us you don’t have any black or brown friends without telling us you don’t have any black or brown friends.

What is this obsession you have with people’s skin colour?

YesImaman1100 · 26/07/2025 08:23

So common sense is now racism. Heard it all now.

Your friend is 99% correct. As there will always be an exception to the rule.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 08:20

nomas · 26/07/2025 06:21

By your logic we should deport white people because most murderers and rapists in the UK are white.

Your constant references to ‘white’ people just shows the problem with ghettoisation. You will be living in a small ghetto bubble completely unaware that 82% of the country is ‘white’. What is it that you have against people who have white skin and why do you want to live in a country full of them? Are the reasons purely economical?

GoodPudding · 26/07/2025 08:12

nomas · 26/07/2025 07:07

Tell us you don’t have any black or brown friends without telling us you don’t have any black or brown friends.

This isn’t about race ffs, it’s about culture! I’m happy to have friends and colleagues from other races. Their race is irrelevant to me.

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 08:12

I find the irony stunning that you think that British people adapt to the norms of the places they go.

But most do, they tend to be quite a rule following bunch.

GoodPudding · 26/07/2025 08:07

It’s sad there are still some people who are insistent that all cultures are compatible with a free tolerant democratic society (apart from perhaps English culture, which is strangely uniquely bad), and would turn a blind eye to a continuation of the sex-grooming gangs has blighted so the lives of so many English girls over the years.

I wonder sometimes if they are actually Reform plants, as they are much better recruiting Sargents than Farage would ever be. I’ve never voted Reform. I’ve never liked Farage and his brand of politics, but it feels like there are some on the Left who are trying their hardest to change my mind and lend them my vote!

hattie43 · 26/07/2025 07:57

I agree with your friend . You sound incredibly naive

GoodPudding · 26/07/2025 07:55

nomas · 26/07/2025 07:37

There were 19 Afghans charged with sexual offences up to end of 2023.

I’d hardly call that an epidemic of Afghans rampaging down the country 🙄

So c.1% of total charges were of Afghans.

Given that the total number of Afghans in the UK as of 2024 was 29,000, or 0.05% of the population, that rate is 20 times higher than average!

That doesn’t mean Afghans are innately bad people. However, they are culturally conditioned to view women as inferior. There will doubtless be sub-cultures of white English people where you’ll have more prevalent rates of sex crime.

In fact, an insistence that race and culture are indistinguishable, is actually far more racist!

u3ername · 26/07/2025 07:54

parietal · 26/07/2025 07:48

America is a nation of immigrants (mostly). They have specific things (4th July, pledge of allegiance at school) to integrate new immigrants into American culture and it largely works.

the UK could welcome migrants and make it possible for them to integrate if we welcomed people better

That’s a good point. Afaik, Canada has various funded programmes for newcomers to help integrate to the local community.

Mountainsfar · 26/07/2025 07:52

I don’t think your friend comes across as racist — though I can see why some of those posts might give that impression to others. But people are entitled to their opinions.

The truth is, the vast majority of Muslims in the UK just want to live peacefully, practise their faith privately, and be part of wider British society. I say this as a British Muslim myself, with immigrant parents from India.

My mum actually came here when she was 3. Her parents worked very hard to integrate, and they’ve always been very, very British — and proud of it. That attitude was passed down to us. My family has always respected British culture — it’s part of who we are. At the same time, we still hold on to our roots through food, language, and values. We’ve always tried to balance both.

That said, I do get frustrated when I see communities where people don’t try to learn English or only stick to their own. Maybe that makes me critical, even towards my own, but I think integration matters — it benefits everyone.

And to be fair, it’s not just South Asians — even though those groups often get singled out in discussions like this. I’ve seen the same with some European and other communities too. As an Indian British Muslim, I’ve sometimes found it hard to connect not only with my own but also with other groups who seem to prefer keeping to themselves. Integration is a two-way process, and it can be hard when people don’t meet in the middle.

One thing I will add — when we visit places outside of London, we often get stared at by white people. We dress well, we’re friendly and respectful — but the looks can be quite uncomfortable. It’s really off-putting. And I wonder if this is one of the reasons some ethnic minorities end up keeping to their own communities. It can feel safer and more familiar when you’re not made to feel like you belong elsewhere.

nomas · 26/07/2025 07:50

Illjusthavethebreadsticks · 26/07/2025 07:39

@nomas oh well that’s alright then

Did anyone say it was alright?

Flyswats · 26/07/2025 07:49

Your friend is definitely a bigot, narrow-minded and inflexible.

These are all prerequisites for being a racist, but racists are mostly focused on racial differences.

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