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Is my best friend racist?

614 replies

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 16:46

Visited my best friend today for lunch and had a conversation that has left me confused, so thought I'd bring it to the MN table.
We were talking about immigration, refugees and asylum seekers.
My friend says the issue is not the colour of people's skin, but rather their culture.
She has no problem with people who wish to settle here when they embrace the UK culture.
Her attitude is that multicultural societies are almost impossible to implement to everyones satisfaction because different cultures have such widely opposing beliefs and values and she believes it is unrealistic to expect to integrate many different cultures and values without considerable conflict between the different cultures.
Furthermore, she believes it is so difficult to integrate different cultures that people of the same ethnicity will inevitably gravitate towards each other and form their own social groups to the exclusion of other ethnic groups, so the whole idea of integration is pointless anyway.
We just end up with lots of different groups of people isolating themselves from other groups who don't share their ethnicity.
She is firmly of the belief that tensions that people describe as racially motivated actually stem from cultural differences, that she knows no one who has any issue with people of different races when they adopt the culture of the country they choose to migrate to, and that the tension is created by ethnic differences and their cultural differences.

I still say this is racism because racism also includes discriminating against people based on their ethnicity. She called me naive if I believe a truly multicultural society is possible when 'you wouldn't even tolerate a friend who has the same ethnicity as you but doesn't share your values so how do you expect to embrace someone's complete different way of life'.
I explained that the way other people choose to live their lives doesn't affect me. She called me naive again at this point and said when people don't have the same values, when they live according to different social rules, it affects people living in their vicinity who don't live like that.

Im not sure whether to raise the subject with her again, or let it lie because she seemed quite adamant and I'm not sure I could make her see this is still racist.

Now I'm wondering if I don't understand what racism is. Maybe I am naive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:48

MerryPeachPoet · 26/07/2025 09:36

Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from criticism - especially when your ‘opinions’ sound like a recycled Daily Mail comment section. You’re free to talk. I’m free to call out the agenda behind it. That’s how it works!

Yes of course you’re free to continue, it’s just not going to work and I have a feeling you have more to contribute than lazy isms and phobias. Join the discussion in an honest way, you never know you might start to understand the depth of feeling and despair people are expressing.

ThatsABitExcessive · 26/07/2025 09:48

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:42

hmm, I think you are being disingenuous. Here’s the quote again:

’It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.
Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

If you dislike immigrants so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 16%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

I don’t dislike immigrants so much, not sure where you’re getting that idea? I‘m married to one. No I very much don’t want to live in a country where immigrants make up over 16%, which is why I’ll be voting to sort that situation out. Yes there are lots of cultural things I like about the U.K., I was born here and didn’t move here for economic reasons.

Would you like to answer my question whether you just moved here for economic reasons or if there is anything else you like about my country culturally ? Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted country?

Looking at the recent polls, the majority of Britain will be voting to sort this situation out. Thankfully.

ThatsABitExcessive · 26/07/2025 09:46

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:40

Misogyny is a UK wide problem, blaming it on immigrants is simplistic and reductive.

2 women are killed every week by an intimate partner (mainly white men).

97% of rapes do not end in a conviction (mainly white men)

My examples are all from men of Middle Eastern backgrounds.

I’ve never been followed around the park by a white man. Not saying it doesn’t happen, of course it does - the difference it’s not normal in British culture.

It was however, normal when I visited Turkey many years ago. I never went back as I realised the culture was far too alien from my own.

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 09:46

For those saying that different cultures don't have different rates of sexual offenses, the stats are clear that they in some cases do.

"Two nationalities – Afghans and Eritreans – were more than 20 times more likely to account for sexual offence convictions than British citizens, according to the data."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/10/foreigners-commit-up-to-quarter-of-sex-crimes/

There are also figures from other European countries, for instance in Germany, there are 90 Afghani rape suspects per 100K inhabitants, but only 9 per 100K German rape suspects.

Is my best friend racist?
ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:43

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 09:41

Sure, that’s why Brits have a reputation of hooliganism abroad,

That's a sub-section though. I'm sure you or I don't go abroad to watch football and cause havoc, so it's surely not difficult to extrapolate that.

They are generally there for less than 3 days as well.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:42

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:29

It’s not clearly about illegal migrants. Zero integration means she thinks no one has integrated.

I like most white people just fine, just as I like most people.

If you dislike immigrants so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 16%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

hmm, I think you are being disingenuous. Here’s the quote again:

’It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.
Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

If you dislike immigrants so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 16%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

I don’t dislike immigrants so much, not sure where you’re getting that idea? I‘m married to one. No I very much don’t want to live in a country where immigrants make up over 16%, which is why I’ll be voting to sort that situation out. Yes there are lots of cultural things I like about the U.K., I was born here and didn’t move here for economic reasons.

Would you like to answer my question whether you just moved here for economic reasons or if there is anything else you like about my country culturally ? Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted country?

SpaceRaccoon · 26/07/2025 09:41

Sure, that’s why Brits have a reputation of hooliganism abroad,

That's a sub-section though. I'm sure you or I don't go abroad to watch football and cause havoc, so it's surely not difficult to extrapolate that.

user4287964265 · 26/07/2025 09:41

Your friend is correct.
Humans are tribal. Always have been and always will be.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:40

ThatsABitExcessive · 26/07/2025 09:35

so you’ve never had to walk past a “shop” (which is clearly a front for some other kind of activity) with your small daughter whilst groups of men gather around outside gawping at you both and sometimes making comments (those that can actually speak any English) as you walk past?

You’ve never experienced taking your small daughter to the park and being followed around by a man who repeatedly tries to make conversation with you in broken English despite making it clear you want to be left alone?

You’ve never had to walk past a migrant hotel whilst large groups of men stare at you and shout stuff at you that you can’t understand?

you’ve never - as a medical professional - been treated like a dog by a male patient because in his culture women are worthless?

ok … well then there is no wonder you are naive.

Misogyny is a UK wide problem, blaming it on immigrants is simplistic and reductive.

2 women are killed every week by an intimate partner (mainly white men).

97% of rapes do not end in a conviction (mainly white men)

MerryPeachPoet · 26/07/2025 09:36

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:18

It’s not going to work, you aren’t going to be able to stifle people expressing opinion because they don’t follow your religion. Free speech is ingrained into British culture.

Free speech doesn’t mean freedom from criticism - especially when your ‘opinions’ sound like a recycled Daily Mail comment section. You’re free to talk. I’m free to call out the agenda behind it. That’s how it works!

ThatsABitExcessive · 26/07/2025 09:35

Newnamefortouchysubject · 25/07/2025 17:27

I see people from all walks of life going about their daily business. I don't see groups of people huddled together excluding others, I don't see people avoiding other people based on their perceived ethnicity.
I have never given other people's ethnicity a thought until lunch today.
Everyone is a little different, no matter who they are or what their culture is. It's what makes the tapestry of life so rich!

so you’ve never had to walk past a “shop” (which is clearly a front for some other kind of activity) with your small daughter whilst groups of men gather around outside gawping at you both and sometimes making comments (those that can actually speak any English) as you walk past?

You’ve never experienced taking your small daughter to the park and being followed around by a man who repeatedly tries to make conversation with you in broken English despite making it clear you want to be left alone?

You’ve never had to walk past a migrant hotel whilst large groups of men stare at you and shout stuff at you that you can’t understand?

you’ve never - as a medical professional - been treated like a dog by a male patient because in his culture women are worthless?

ok … well then there is no wonder you are naive.

StripyShirt · 26/07/2025 09:31

Your friend is entirely sensible - we need to dostinguish between race and culture.

Issues need to be discussed openly, otherwise we will never fix them.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:31

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/07/2025 09:28

My parents were immigrants :)

very few people argue for zero immigration, it is the huge numbers over a very short period of time that that is causing problems.

and yes, our societal and economic model needs to change so that we no reliant on ever-increasing numbers of immigrants

Think that ship has sailed, unless you implement The Handmaid’s Tale and start forcing women to have babies.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:30

u3ername · 26/07/2025 09:20

ISIS is a terrorist group i.e. criminals.

What remained of Viking culture was being absorbed into the culture of Christian Europe.

This is true, but the slavery and treatment of women from ‘other lesser’ groups was a cultural norm just as it is today amongst some groups in the UK.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:29

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:25

Did you mean the below? clearly about illegal immigration. Why the ‘white’ thing? Why the disingenuous quoting? If you dislike ‘white’ people so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 80%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

’It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.
Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

It’s not clearly about illegal migrants. Zero integration means she thinks no one has integrated.

I like most white people just fine, just as I like most people.

If you dislike immigrants so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 16%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/07/2025 09:28

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:19

“According to the Office for National Statistics this week, Britain’s “indigenous” population in the 2030s will be static and ageing. Growth in population* *will be buoyed only by immigrants, their number predicted to rise by 5 million over the next seven years.”

Do you refuse to let an immigrant doctor or nurse treat you in a hospital? Will you object to an immigrant care home worker wiping your arse when you’re in an old care home? No. So maybe show some gratitude to immigrants for doing jobs white Brits don’t want to do.

My parents were immigrants :)

very few people argue for zero immigration, it is the huge numbers over a very short period of time that that is causing problems.

and yes, our societal and economic model needs to change so that we no reliant on ever-increasing numbers of immigrants

ThatsABitExcessive · 26/07/2025 09:26

I agree with her 100%.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:25

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:13

Did you even read the posts you’re responding to? Clearly not! Red it again. JoyofNC said ‘There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

So South Asian, Chinese, Middle Eastern people don’t contribute to the UK? Any statistics for this abhorrent view?

Edited

Did you mean the below? clearly about illegal immigration. Why the ‘white’ thing? Why the disingenuous quoting? If you dislike ‘white’ people so much, why do you want to live in a country where they make up over 80%? Is it purely for economic reasons or is there anything culturally you like?

’It's always the people who have absolutely 0 experience of living in the places where all the illegal migrants are put that want to defend them.
Maybe go and see it for yourself OP. There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

u3ername · 26/07/2025 09:20

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 08:43

Are you sure about that? It’s very much been a cultural issue for hundreds if not 1000s of years, from the Vikings through to ISIS.

ISIS is a terrorist group i.e. criminals.

What remained of Viking culture was being absorbed into the culture of Christian Europe.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:19

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/07/2025 09:13

as an aside - it is often said that Britain has always been multi-cultural. And to some extent that is true. But the claim is exaggerated. e.g. the Windrush generation (immigrants to Britain from Commonwealth countries) covers the period 1948-71 and the total number of immigrants is estimated to be around 500,000.

Last year alone, net migration to UK was 430,000. It's inevitable that those kind of numbers are going to cause all sorts of issues.

“According to the Office for National Statistics this week, Britain’s “indigenous” population in the 2030s will be static and ageing. Growth in population* *will be buoyed only by immigrants, their number predicted to rise by 5 million over the next seven years.”

Do you refuse to let an immigrant doctor or nurse treat you in a hospital? Will you object to an immigrant care home worker wiping your arse when you’re in an old care home? No. So maybe show some gratitude to immigrants for doing jobs white Brits don’t want to do.

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:18

MerryPeachPoet · 26/07/2025 09:10

Heres there classic ‘I’m just asking questions’ routine - as if wrapping prejudice in the language of ‘reasonable concerns’ suddenly makes it noble. Criticism of any belief system is fair game. Blanket suspicion, stereotyping, and fearmongering of people based on their religion? That’s Islamophobia. If the distinction feels uncomfortable, maybe it’s not the label that’s the problem.

It’s not going to work, you aren’t going to be able to stifle people expressing opinion because they don’t follow your religion. Free speech is ingrained into British culture.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 26/07/2025 09:13

as an aside - it is often said that Britain has always been multi-cultural. And to some extent that is true. But the claim is exaggerated. e.g. the Windrush generation (immigrants to Britain from Commonwealth countries) covers the period 1948-71 and the total number of immigrants is estimated to be around 500,000.

Last year alone, net migration to UK was 430,000. It's inevitable that those kind of numbers are going to cause all sorts of issues.

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:13

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:12

There isn’t a culture based around skin colour, maybe sun tan lotion rituals. Do you mean British people? What white people are saying there is zero integration? European immigrant integration into the UK has been successful.

Did you even read the posts you’re responding to? Clearly not! Red it again. JoyofNC said ‘There is no integration. Not even an attempt.’

So South Asian, Chinese, Middle Eastern people don’t contribute to the UK? Any statistics for this abhorrent view?

ThatBoldBear · 26/07/2025 09:12

nomas · 26/07/2025 09:08

When white people say that there is zero integration of immigrants in British culture, it can only mean they stick to their white culture and don’t socialise outside of it.

There isn’t a culture based around skin colour, maybe sun tan lotion rituals. Do you mean British people? What white people are saying there is zero integration? European immigrant integration into the UK has been successful.

MerryPeachPoet · 26/07/2025 09:10

Absentmindedsmile · 26/07/2025 07:25

Another person putting Islam beyond critical examination.

Simplistically labelling people who raise issues with Islam, 'Islamophobic', and therefore hindering efforts to address reasonable concerns.

Desperate measures, really.

Heres there classic ‘I’m just asking questions’ routine - as if wrapping prejudice in the language of ‘reasonable concerns’ suddenly makes it noble. Criticism of any belief system is fair game. Blanket suspicion, stereotyping, and fearmongering of people based on their religion? That’s Islamophobia. If the distinction feels uncomfortable, maybe it’s not the label that’s the problem.

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