Is my best friend racist?

Given your views on living here and how bad it is, where would you prefer?

Calling them ‘lazy isms and phobias’ is a lazy attempt to dodge the fact that they fit. You’re not challenging ideas - you’re pathologising people, then playing victim when it’s called out. That’s not discourse. That’s deflection. And no - I’m not here to coddle that.

‘I went to Notting Hill Carnival’ must be the new ‘My best friend is black.’

I see precious little tolerance on this thread. If this is your idea of tolerance then no wonder lots of people aren’t buying it.

There is plenty of integration, it’s just that some cultures are more aligned to British values of tolerance and democracy than others. There’s also too much lack of integration in some communities and yes, they tend to be those with an Islamic background. There isn’t generally the same issue with those from non-Muslim cultures. Oh, and I’ve been to the Notting Hill carnival three times and loved it - I’m happy embracing other cultures where there is a broad overlap of values.

However, many Muslims do integrate, and you can be a Muslim irrespective of your racial heritage. This is a cultural thing, not specifically religious, and definitely not racial.

Firstly I am ethnically Indian. IME most people in England regardless of ethnicity integrate well and have largely the same common interests. I lived in London for some years with white, black and Chinese neighbours and no real integration issues. In many parts of the UK this is the case.

There is a legitimate question around scale and type of migration. In short if you bring in too many migrants too quickly you will get a lack of social cohesion, particularly as in the UK (as opposed to elsewhere) we do nothing to promote cohesion and just assume it will happen.

On the type of migration, if you are focused on letting in skilled nurses, doctors and IT specialists amongst others there will be limited problems. At the moment any (largely young men), who can scrape together £3k for a smuggler can come here and seemingly stop indefinitely.

There is a real problem in some sectors of society overseas with the view of women and I do not think this should be ignored.

LOL I rest my case m’Lord.

Your friend is absolutely right.. obviously. How that can be ‘racist’ … it coukd only be dubbed that out of ignorance. Seeing cultural misalignments that are glaringly obvious to all is simply ‘perception of reality unimpeded by fear of noticing uncomfy realities’.

”racism” as a term no longer holds value. It’s been thrown around too much to quell uncomfortable discussions.

We get it, Hindus good, Muslims bad.

No wonder the community keeps to itself if this is how they’re treated. Who would want to integrate into this kind of hatred.

Oh so is this how it works then? You can make false accusations, not have to provide evidence and then not apologise for racist assumptions?

And yet you still expect me to engage with you and answer your questions?

Once you issue me a full unreserved apology for your prejudiced decision that I’m not British then I may consider answering your questions.

Again you’re trying to stifle discussion with lazy isms and phobias. You are making the issue worse by not discussing honestly and openly the issues, I can see you are not going to understand this due to your them and us attitude. This is a shame as I get the feeling you are actually quite bright.

No - we didn’t. We didn’t want to integrate with the values of that culture. Also as a woman I couldn’t anyway. The streets were full of young Pakistani men hanging out together. No women were out at all. They didn’t socialise, go out into the town centre to the clubs, pubs and places which made up the town back then. I’m not quite sure how you would have expected me to ‘integrate’ as you put it when you weren’t welcome into their homes, or society. By this I mean the particular kind of rural Pakistani religious and cultural beliefs. A Hindu family moved into the street and the cultural friendliness and integration was completely different.

Fucking hell 😳

I have not once suggested or implied that I am an immigrant. So why did you decide that I am an immigrant and that I wasn’t born in the UK?

I don’t agree but can’t really be bothered to look though all your posts.I’ll take your word for it and I’ll rephrase:
Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about native British culture?

Now calling out bigotry is ‘lazy’ — while painting Muslims as a problem is somehow deep, honest discourse? I’ve joined the discussion honestly from the start. What you’re calling ‘despair’ often sounds more like discomfort with a diverse society. If your depth of feeling comes at the expense of mine, maybe it’s time to question whose voice is actually being heard - and whose is constantly being told to be more polite about their existence

I have been treated incredibly well within our British Culture.

I received a free education. I married who I chose to marry. I worked, started a business, enjoyed drinking with my friends in restaurants. I felt at ease discussing politics without any retribution.

Yes - our justice system is far from perfect - our laws are brilliant - world leading. The practicality of working through an underfunded legal system is woeful.
be proud of the British culture - it’s bloody good for women.

My best friend grew up in Sparkbrook, Birmingham, and she was Muslim. She wasn't allowed to date boys, but she did — in secret. She was terrified someone from her community would find out and report her. Walking openly with a boy in Sparkbrook, a free town in the UK just wasn’t an option. So she’d travel to Wolverhampton just to see someone without fear.
Eventually, at 21, she ran away from home. Not because she hated her family or her culture, but because she wanted the freedom to live her life without constantly looking over her shoulder. She chose to move somewhere more mixed.
It’s not just about people from the outside feeling alienated — sometimes, it’s people on the inside who suffer the most.

I have not once suggested or implied that I am an immigrant. So why did you decide that I am an immigrant and that I wasn’t born in the UK?

Why don’t you do the decent thing and own your inherent prejudice and bias?

Please engage honestly. Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted countries culture?

And you’re still doing it. I WAS BORN HERE. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

I totally agree.

Unfortunately there are countries such as Iran, most of the Arab states etc, who are not tolerant - especially of all of the above. And when their cultures become dominant in certain areas of our country - it leads to civil unrest and difficulties.
I don’t think it’s helpful for the government/BBC or whoever to label people racist for not wanting certain more ‘hardline’ aspects of cultures to dominate their community - fake underage marriages, marriage b/w cousins, arranged marriages etc.

But you are living in a country where 16% are immigrants, so your options are either to stay or leave.

Not sure they are my only options, as I said I’m voting to rectify that situation.

So you have decided that I was not born in YOUR country because I’m not white? Do you know how racist that is?

You are being disingenuous and using the lazy ists and isms to stop discussion. You have clearly represented yourself as an immigrant throughout your posts and refer to non immigrants as ‘white’ people. You have decided because I was born in this country that I am white? Is that also racist?

Please engage honestly. Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted countries culture?

But - even if that IS a thing in the UAE (and I have never heard of it) - the whole country of the UK is a zone for 'any other culture.' They are free to practice their religion anywhere here. And many other cultures and religions DO have buildings and facilities for their particular faith... This is one of the most free and liberal countries in the world, where cultures and religions of anyone and everyone is allowed.. We are constantly 'accommodating' other cultures. What on earth are you on about?

Why do you think half the population of the world want to come here?! It's one of the best and safest places in the world to live. And they know it. It's only over-privileged social justice warriors who have been born and raised here, who whinge about it, and post tedious threads claiming they want to leave the UK. (They never do, they know deep down that they're well off here!)

n.b. I'm not complaining about the UK accommodating other cultures by the way, just don't imply it doesn't happen! It does!

I’m certain this is a reverse. The level of detail and rational thought when you describe “your friend’s “ argument vs your own. And then admitting you live in the sticks and know nothing about it whereas your friend lives in a city and has direct experience. Why can’t you just be honest and say your own opinion?

I can guarantee if you’d have lived there in the 1980s you’d have moved out - like everyone else who could did

So all the white people chose to leave and yet it is Pakistani people’s fault that they’re the only ones left?

You are the ones who chose not to integrate in this situation.

Never been or lived in Oldham then. I have. There most definitely is ‘huddles’ as you put it. No significant integration at all. Huge huddles of mainly Pakistani men with dubious cultural beliefs which don’t align with mine or my family’s. I can guarantee if you’d have lived there in the 1980s you’d have moved out - like everyone else who could did. The terraced housing was cheap,and bought by ‘mainly’ Pakistani immigrants of certain areas and similar culture. It’s been a distaster for Oldham. They didn’t want to integrate as much as the pre existing residents didn’t either. It didn’t work - much as you or anyone else would have loved it to be different.

hmm, I think you are being disingenuous. Here’s the quote again:

Yep, the bit about there being no integration is in a new paragraph. So broader than just illegal migrants. You wouldn’t know someone is illegal just be looking at someone.

I don’t dislike immigrants so much, not sure where you’re getting that idea? I‘m married to one. No I very much don’t want to live in a country where immigrants make up over 16%, which is why I’ll be voting to sort that situation out. Yes there are lots of cultural things I like about the U.K., I was born here and didn’t move here for economic reasons.

But you are living in a country where 16% are immigrants, so your options are either to stay or leave.

Would you like to answer my question whether you just moved here for economic reasons or if there is anything else you like about my country culturally ? Can you bring yourself to say anything positive about your adopted country?

So you have decided that I was not born in YOUR country because I’m not white? Do you know how racist that is?

I was born here and you are not any more British than me. Sorry to burst your bubble.

If we never allow people to integrate, they will never have the ability or opportunity to open their minds.

FWIW I come from a family that is very multicultural. Some are practicing Muslims who wear full veil, others who are much less practicing, atheists, Hindus, Buddhists and Christians. We have heterosexual, bisexual and same sex partnerships and inter-religious marriages too. We are a mix of ethnicities. We celebrate Christmas and one of the Eid celebrations a year as a one big family. I find it racist that everybody is tarred with the same brush and people are not seen as individuals. If we saw each person as an individual rather than characterise them by their race, religion etc I’m pretty sure the world would be a better place and there would be more tolerance.