To ask for help over my children's behaviour

OP I don’t mean this unkindly but why did you have 4 kids? Did you expect it to be easier than it is?

So you both work - full time? You can’t drive but by the sounds of things live in an area where you need to drive?

Something needs to change. Would moving help?

Sounds like she’s attention seeking. It can often lead to poor behaviour as they crave attention even if it’s because they’ve behaved badly. Do you manage to spend one to one time with her?

At 8 she should not be leaving the house even just across the road without you knowing. She needs a scary talk about the risks and an explanation that if she chooses to do it again knowing the risks then the consequence will be be xyz. (No tv for a week, limit access to tablet etc).
for the stealing I would be taking money out of any pocket money you give or setting chores for her to do to earn back the amount.
for the disrespect of things I would make her under my supervision tidy everything up every time. Yes. All clothes back on hangers. All pieces of Lego found and reassembled. She will soon learn that she dislikes the tidy up. Next time you decide to let a friend play sit both girls down and explain your ground rules. Perhaps say bedroom is out of bounds annd provide 2 choices of activity. Supervise. Insist everything is respected and everything is tidied away before the friend leaves.

Oh come on she's 8. Why does she not know by now what consequences will be in place for her actions? Are there any? You have to be firm and consistent

And I agree you need to confiscate everything she throws around and messes up. Clothes, bed sheets, pillow slip, toys, books. She can earn it back by points for good behaviour and helpful, cooperative attitude week by week.

Fwiw, permanent marker sometimes comes off furniture with nail polish remover. Hair spray is worth a try too.

I'm sorry, but the family member isn't really capable of looking after children.

Is there nobody else at all you could get to look after them? You should count yourself lucky that your child just went across the road to the shop with the stolen money and didn't wander off for hours and end up God knows where, with God knows who.

You need to find someone else who can keep them busy and wear them out outdoors. They need a routine. They need to burn off energy. They need to be watched every minute.

Then her toys etc go in a bin bag, and she gets them back when she stops acting like a baby.

My parents did this once with me when I was being a little madame and it worked a treat. Came home to all my favorite stuff packed away, replaced with a dummy and a rattle 😂

Hello
It sounds like you are trying your absolute best and I’m sorry things are overwhelming and sounds like things have got on top of you. Please seek some professional help. The help is out there. Schools are still monitoring emails but also there are early help teams in every local authority who may be able to give you some advice/support. Seeking help is seen as a good thing by professionals and it’s better to ask for it before things get really out of control.
good luck xxx

op have you looked into ADHD? I have an ADHD 7 year old granted he doesn't act like your daughter but he has his moments.

Also look at Autism, my teenager is Autistic and hes worse than my 7 year old at times

They need routines and consistency. Plan a programme for each day and have it on a chart where they can see it. Build in little things that they can do to earn rewards. Take away privileges for poor behaviour.

Of course the 10yo can play with his siblings, he dosnt get to do his own thing all the time when he is part of a family, my 10yo played games with their 3yo sibling it’s called being part of a family.

There are plenty of games and crafts to be played with without an adult helping too much which is what I said, colouring, children can use glue sticks and stickers with very little help, I get given sheets of paper with drawings, colourings stickers, cut out pictures on daily my youngest makes for me on her own, granted she’s now 7 but she’s been doing it for years. My most recent thing I’ve done to occupy her without adult supervision is give her multiple sheets of sticky gems and told her what’s she’s allowed to bling, she’s very kindly blinded my walking stick for me, she’s loved it. Her older siblings asked for some more so they could bling their own things. The craft items can be set out each day, all exactly the same so no “best” or favourite item, all get the same stuff to use.

The kids can play hide and seek, the floor is lava, create a play or dance show to put on when the parents are home. It’s just a matter of planning and getting creative.

Sit the children down, tell them going forward they are going to be able to do things, they can make a card for someone they care about, draw a picture, make a collage just no paint and glitter, they will get rewards points for helping, getting involved, cleaning up. Write the name of activities on paper and get each one to draw from a hat, they get 1 each and that’s their activitie that day, all 4 do it and all 4 do the game/activities, they each get a reward treat when your home. Or you can say ok, when I’m at work tomorrow I want you to pick one craft, 1 game, 1 board game and 1 other thing each to do together throughout the day, one after breakfast, one after lunch and 2 in the afternoon. Buy a bag of sweets, treats, prizes from home bargains as rewards or for every time they participate they get 50p each to spend at the weekend.

There is obviously something going on with the 8 yo but you can still try getting her to partake, she might just like the structure.

One thing I did in covid when we had months of finding things to do, was get them to go through the house finding certain things/toys, one day I asked them to find everything dog related, they collected all dog related toys in the house and counted them. I then sent them in a mission to find everything LOL related LOL doll and accessory, they spent an entire day looking, dressing up and organising they all, same with shopkins and so on. We set up a jungle using house plants and soft toys took pictures, moved them around like we were David Attenborough watching real animals, this could be done outside if you don’t have house plants, maybe turn it into the kids work together to make their own video..

They can also do what my DCs have done all day today, zone out on tablets for the day, watched their videos and played Roblox, no one was up to doing anything today so other than a my youngest riding her bike to the shop with DH it’s been a day of tablets and phones, and that’s ok!

You sound like you have tried everything you can think of and nothing is working. Is there anyone you can think of who would be willing to help you with the eight year old in particular? I really do feel your pain and I hope you can find a solution that works very soon. Please keep us updated if it's appropriate and if you can. Those who are not judging you here really do care. If your eight year old behaves well at school that's a positive starting point but I'm not sure where you can go from here. Would her teacher be able to give you some advice or insight?__

You have no authority in your home. Positive re enforcement works well, so you catch them being good and tell them how well they are behaving and reward that behaviour. The Lego is hers I wouldn’t punish that personally but I would say I won’t be buying anymore till you think she can look after it,

The child is already bored shitless and trapped inside all day. You think removing all forms of stimulation will help? Not a chance.

Ground, no friends over + no technology whatsoever, TV, radio (take fuses out of the big stuff so you don't have to move it), tablets, phones etc etc etc. in her room, remove everything, clothes toys etc etc. she can have a bed and empty wardrobe etc you hand her her clothes and nightwear on a daily basis. Chores to pay back the money she stole too. Few weeks should do it. Have her earn her stuff back too. If she does it again, add a week. Are you a sham or working? (Asking for a reason, not judging either way). Xx

We're at the weekend now, can you see if you do lots of physical out of house stuff this weekend if it improves? If it does improve you have your answer and you will need to find alternative childcare or take unpaid leave.

I mean, regardless, children can't spend all day in the house unless there are very significant extenuating circumstances. You might need to start taking them out early in the morning before work to the park or local swimming pool.

The behaviour you describe seems really extreme for neurotypical children. I understand school say they are well behaved there, what about round friends' houses? Is it just at your house they do this?

Your kids all need to leave the house every day. This situation is basically the same as having dogs and never taking them for a walk, and then wondering why they keep destroying your house.

You’re going to need to find and pay someone to take them to the park and on various other outings every weekday morning. Once they’ve had some exercise and stimulation in the morning, the afternoons could be for crafts / games / reading etc with your relative in the house. Ideally they would have some full day outings to interesting places some days too, and clubs etc with other kids.

If the 8yo is still naughty once she’s no longer cooped up and bored witless all day, then work out how to deal with her. Punishing her will achieve nothing until her needs are being met. Her behaviour is telling you that she’s bored and angry about being bored, and this is the problem you need to solve first.

8 years old is old enough to know better OP. I feel that 8yo is misbehaving for attention.

Firstly, you need to have proper childcare in place. Even for a few hours per day if you cannot afford the full day. Leaving kids with a person with a disability who cant leave the house is a recipe for disaster and they are likely left to their own devices (no shame on the babysitter, theres nothing more they can really do!)

Failing that, if childcare really cannot be afforded, you need to plan activities better with babysitter and provide the activities/supplies when they are dropped off along with a schedule. Make sure babysitter adheres to the schedule! This can be arts and crafts, puzzles, screen time etc. Lay it all out. Kids do well on set schedules.

At home, its important to set boundaries for bad behaviour and also reward for good behaviour. Positive reinforcement.

For now, at home, DD who is misbehaving is not allowed her friends in the house and can only go outside if she behaves. If not, she can't see any friends. And she has to come inside and help with chores. If she doesnt comply, you send her to a room with no devices etc until she is ready to apologise and continue the chores. Once chores are done, you tell her well done, and allow her outside again. Rinse and repeat.

These chores can be anything - hoovering/brushing, drying or washing dishes, tidying her room, dusting around the home etc. Also get kids involved in cooking etc. It keeps them busy and they learn life skills.

The issue nowadays is that parents are emphasising on the fact that "kids should be kids" too much. Not every day needs to be a fun day, especially if both parents work.

When I was little, I didnt go to summer schemes very often. I had opportunities to go outside and play, or I had books, TV etc inside if I didnt fancy going outside. But I also had chores from a young age also. I had to make my bed daily, tidy my room, help with cleaning around the house and laundry. I was tasked with putting dinner into the oven from about 9 years old!

My 8 yo can be challenging also, especially as he is ND. He thrives off having something to do. If he says he's bored, I give him a cloth and let him dust surfaces in the house, or I get him to brush or hoover. He helped wash the car the other day. He also has to help and observe dinner being made every single day and help set the table. If he does well, he gets a treat or a fun day doing activity he wants at the weekend.

Thank you for asking for help OP!

I’d deal with burning off that energy first. I’m at a park in the rain so my kids will be less destructive…

Can you hire an older child for a few hours a day to take the kids out to the park and play hard? Playground and swings but also football, explore nature, races, chin up contests… Can disabled relative put them in the garden more? Bribe with ice cream or only serve lunch out there. Set up whatever games they CAN do. Indoors can the caretaker do board games and craft kits? 3yo can be on a team with relative or 10yo.

Download craft instructions and lego build instructions and stuff like that if you can’t afford the kit.

Put stuff in the house or garden to burn energy like a trampoline basketball net, rope ladder….

Talk to 8yo friends’ parents so they can still play without getting into nonsense (or at least learn to be subtle)

My child is younger than yours (6) but until recently did similar things (drawing on walls, being destructive). I recommend observing to try and work out what the triggers are- what happens directly before she does something like this? For my son, it was feeling like he wasn’t getting enough attention- for example, if DH and I needed to discuss something and we said ‘we need you to play on your own/not interrupt for 10 minutes so we can talk about getting the car fixed or whatever, he’d be off finding something to draw on or wreck. It was exhausting (and obviously a totally unreasonable way to behave on his part) but understanding WHY he did it, even though it was still totally unacceptable, did help. There were other triggers too, this is just an example.

We then had a proper sit-down chat and said we’ve noticed that when we need to have grown-up conversations, you do xyz. We’re not asking you to not interrupt/go and do something else because we don’t want to be with you, we’re doing it because we have very dull things that HAVE to be done. Destroying things is unacceptable, xyz will be the consequence if it happens again. I think it made a big difference to him to know that we knew exactly what he was doing and why, he seemed to realise that we had his number after that point because it stopped quickly.

Our consequence is that you pay for anything you destroy on purpose. Obviously he doesn’t have access to more than his pocket money as he’s six, so our solution is that he ‘works’ (by doing extra age-appropriate chores) to ‘earn’ the money to rectify whatever he’s ruined. I explained that when something is ruined, mummy and daddy have to work for x amount of time to pay for a new one/for something to be fixed. The money doesn’t just magically appear and we don’t have an endless supply of it. This was highly effective and only had to be done once.

I also recommend getting them involved in looking after the house in general. I’m not suggesting huge amounts of chores for young children, but everyone needs to contribute to keep our shared house a nice place to live. I give mine quite ‘grown-up’ jobs and we do them together (he likes laundry, cleaning bathrooms, cleaning and organising cupboards etc). I make it fun, we have a playlist for chores that he made and sing and dance as we do it, we have a good chat and I go really overboard on praise, telling him how lucky I am to have such a grown up, helpful boy, what an important team member he is to our family etc etc. At first there was resistance, now he glows with pride over keeping our house nice and being a team player.

Also recommend taking a weekend or a few days off with them and spending that time fully focused on setting good behaviour habits (and making sure that you’re learning to be totally consistent with praise and consequences, when I realised that something desperately needed to be done to turn around my son’s behaviour, I realised that I needed to be more disciplined with myself in how I parented). Mine needs to be kept busy, and yours sound similar, so you might need some kind of quite set routine for school and home days, especially at first. While you’re resetting boundaries, avoid activities that you know are likely to be a nightmare (shopping for my boy) and have a plan so that boredom isn’t a factor. In other words, make it as easy as possible for them to behave well while they get used to a firmer approach.

Sorry for the essay, your DD sounds so similar to my chap so hopefully some of this will be helpful. I really sympathise, it is hard work!

So when the children are playing up, you are not there? Or do you work from home?

Referring to your op, if all that is happening when you are not around because you are working, I am not surprised. You need a very experienced person to be able to keep them all entertained for six weeks.

Sorry but your set up seems impossible. Can you split them up and put them in to different childcare? Do you have another family member to help out from time to time? Or a friend who will take one or two out with them?

😆😆😆😆

They need structure and activity.
Can you get different childcare in the mornings to take them out? Children need to be active.
A park, a bike ride, kicking a ball, running are all good. Are there any clubs you can enroll the older kids in? Swimming? Tennis? Any sports?
If they’ve been active in the morning then afternoons might be calmer.