To ask for help over my children's behaviour

Along with no being able to drive and living rurally. It’s the new MN bingo.

One of my DC is like your 8 yo OP. So I do sympathise with you, because they do require a lot more thought and planning than easy going children. My hard work child is my cleverest by a long stretch, but he also needs a lot of adult help channeling his need for dopamine. Or he will become destructive and obnoxious. School is good for him because it’s very stimulating and predictable and packed with opportunity for praise, so I recognise that as well.

I’ve realised you can’t discipline the need for lots of mental and physical stimulation out of a child. You have to embrace it. You can absolutely discipline them for behaviour, but not if you aren’t meeting their needs in the first place.

A standard summer day with my son would be up and out for a good few hours where we’d aim to cover at least 5 or 6km interspersed with a play area. This is none negotiable. He may whinge in the morning but once we are out he is usually fine. Then home for play - which would be something like building a big, complex LEGO set that takes all afternoon.

DH and I have both cut our hours to meet his needs more and we moved to a cheaper area where we could afford a childminder to do the same when we are working. Rural living without a car with him would be a total disaster so you have my sympathy on that one!

I think you need to try and find a way to meet her needs more, then focus on disciplining poor behaviour. I suspect if she’s more physically and mentally stimulated the poor behaviour will reduce though.

Something has to give op. I don’t see how you can work full-time with four young children (one only 3) and then complain about their behaviour in the holidays when you are not even there and don’t have suitable childcare.

I have three kids and don't drive - but have always lived near parks and facilities for them. They grew up walking places - there's never been a choice - pushcairs when young then walking at their pace.

I personally would not live rurally with no facilities and no transport access - though DH and I were more rural growing up than now and there were still walks and parks and things to do - even in my rural village.

I'd agree with PP the 8 year old seems to be the problem so I'd focus on activities for her if there are any spaces or some alterative childcare and if you can't do all just her at moment- but also agree you need to get on top of this now otherwise teen years will likely be really hard.

There aren't easy cheap answers TBH - if 8 year old okay in school then routine and more structure and activity will very likely hugely help her.

She can’t smack the boredom out of an 8 year old.

Pay for a proper nanny (that can drive). Beggars belief you’d have 4 children and not learn to drive.

I really think you need to learn to drive too.
yes it’s an expense but if you live I. Such an isolated area it will really improve your life.

When mine were small I lived in s rougher area precisely because it was cheap so I could work part time and because it was walking distance to the town centre and parks. We had little money and no family help.
I agree with PP - you need routine. And you need to give the kids jobs to do to occupy them. With four children they should be able to entertain each other a bit. It’s good you have reached out for help now before things get worse.

I know this won't be popular but I honestly think parenting difficult children would have been easier when smacking was still a thing.

I'm not suggesting OP smack her child obviously.

It's worth the 40 min drive imho @Imissgoldengrahams

Right, I agree, kinetic sand is not going to cut it. You need a long term plan here. Having 4 kids with both parents working most of the time when one parent can’t drive is very difficult and needs planning and money.

Long term I think you need to consider downsizing so that one/ both of you can go part time. My partner and I both have demanding jobs and 3 kids but when our kids were younger we both went 4 days a week, with different days off, so we could supervise the kids. In the holidays we took leave separately so we were off at different times. I know you’ve only just started but I’m a few months you will be able to request flexible working.

You also need to either learn to drive or live somewhere that you can get to school, kids clubs etc. Living somewhere 2 bus rides away from parks and 40 mins to the nearest holiday club when you don’t drive and your partner is apparently out all day is completely unsustainable. The kids are young now but when you’ve got 4 teens/ tweens and 2/3 activities an evening what are you going to do?

In the short term, if your 8 yr old is the main ringleader I think you need to focus on her. I just don’t believe that there isn’t something closer than 40 mins. She needs to be in a club/ activity for at least some of the day. Sports, swimming, dance, tennis, whatever. I’d be trying to get your partner to take her on his way to work, then either the childminder picks her up with one other child and you look after the others, or you go and take a longer/ later lunch break. Or could you get a qualified childminder a couple of days a week. Even if you have to chuck money at it this summer you’ve got to get proper stimulating childcare in place.

Finally, absolutely reset discipline. We used 1-2-3 magic and stuck with the consequences. I cannot believe that an 8 yr old doesn’t respond to something. If you’d started earlier this week you could for example have said that your 8 yr old wouldn’t be going on the trip today unless her behaviour improved. And also look at wider stuff- is everyone eating properly? If you’re out with the kids could your partner batch cook some healthy food for next week- no sugar, of etc. As others have said, limit/ ban screens. And check they are all getting enough sleep.

If you’re now in a good career and the only reason you can’t afford it is because you’ve only just started can you take on some debt to get things sorted for this Summer? Not something I’d usually advise but if you’ll have spare cash then you could get an interest free credit card and have it paid off by the end of the year.

What are you going to do for childcare in term time now you’re working full time?

Do you want to work OP?

There was activities over the road at the community centre which the shop is at, but there were for people who have a membership through benefits
I tried to email if I could just pay but they never responded

So go over there and speak to someone!

I'm not going to bash you over this OP, parenting is bloody hard & juggling work and holidays is tricky, even when the kids are behaving!
Mine are 19, 17 & 15 now so I have it a lot easier! But I remember how difficult it can be, especially when one or more are playing up.

I think you need to go with 3 strategies at once here because if you don't knock the poor behaviour on the head now, its going to get embedded and even worse to correct for you.

Firstly, I agree with PPs about structure-it creates stability and expectations of the day for children-a good place to start is fixing meal times at the same time-make a schedule, stick it on the fridge. The older two are old enough to make a sandwich or prepare cereal/ use a toaster -get them involved in these tasks and it becomes part of their day. Give them set tasks during the day-this could be drawing/art, gardening/reading/board games/skipping/garden activities-mix it up so there are clear times for exertion and quiet time too.

Give them a free period each day for them to choose what to do-you can use this to reinforce good behaviour as well-if they stick to the rules (and you need to set these boundaries clearly for them), they get to choose a fun activity-break the rules and that time becomes chores. Every action has a consequence, and that can be good or bad. This worked with mine.

Secondly, rules. What are the house rules? Are they clear? When things are going well, it is easy to just bobble along without making expectations clear-but when you are struggling with behaviour, you need to wipe the slate clean and clearly set down boundaries and expectations.

Thirdly, outside activities are important-but realistically financially and practically very few parents can afford to go out/pay every day. Think of what you can afford/do in your schedule and then build at home activities around these. A bit of planning will keep them entertained for the day. Make sure each child has the opportunity to earn rewards independently too (don't punish the collective for one child breaking the rules). Each day make sure there is a mix of activities to physically tire and mentally challenge and stimulate. They'll sleep better and behave better for it.
Cut out, if you can, junk food/E numbers etc. Haribo are NOT your friend with bored children playing up.

Good luck OP, I know summer is hard work!

Could you bus it with the kids, then cycle to work?

Maybe try rewarding good behaviour instead. A reward chart as grounding isn't working she's obviously not bothered by this

but the school is in walking distance and a shop and park across the road. How rural can it be that there is nothing else 40mins away?

My neighbour can’t drive and cycles everywhere with her kids, toddler on her bike on a seat. If you want to, there are solutions.

Surely if you can get them to school in term time you could get them to holiday club now? Is there nothing at their school?

Have you thought of getting her an indoor trampette/mini trampoline? Or doing a YouTube exercise video?

You could engage her in something a bit energetic if she won’t sit quietly. Get a bit if vintage Mr Motivator on, and do it together, not just leave her to it, do it with her!

Edited to add, if you do want to do crafty/sitting down activities, you need to do it with her. You can’t expect her to just sit down and do it herself. You need to engage with her.