To ask for help over my children's behaviour

Totally disagree with this. We had 4 children in 6 years. They didn’t behave like that. They’re adults now and I’ve asked several times if they felt they missed out on attention and they all say no. We worked very hard to give them individual time. It is perfectly possible to have several children close together and manage it.

It does sound as though you live in an area with limited childcare availability, and I would guess it’s a bit of a vicious circle where not many families need childcare (mums working part-time or not working), so there isn’t much childcare available as there’s no demand, so it’s a struggle for anyone who would need childcare, like you.

Also (I know this will sound unkind, but it’s not meant to be), if you don’t know any other families where both parents work full-time and need to use childcare, then you’re not aware of what could be out there or the need to plan holiday childcare well in advance. I’ve certainly learned about holiday clubs from chatting to other parents, and we often joke about the need to plan the summer holidays like a military operation, but I can imagine that if no one around you needs to do this, you might think it’s easy to find childcare.

Your response to ‘what will happen after the summer’ was that the children will be back at school, but I think the poster was asking what childcare plans do you have once school starts. Does your three-year-old have a place at nursery, and is that term time only or all year round? Can you and your partner cover the school and nursery drop-offs and pick-ups between you (you say he starts and finishes early while you start later in the day), or will you need breakfast club or afterschool club? Will you be able to take time off over the October half term and Christmas breaks, or will you need to use childcare. As a previous poster has said, you need to think about childcare cover for the next school holiday as soon as they get back to school.

Look at the ages of these kids. There is no way that they were given anywhere near the amount of attention they needed before the next child came along, no wonder they are out of control and wild. They crave what they didn’t get.

It sounds like she is bored and also looking for attention. If you don’t have one in place, I’d suggest reward charts for all of the children. Have about five things you want them to do, maybe include one specific ‘job’ for each child and then subject to getting a certain percentage each week, you give money that can be spent on sweets or some other reward. You could discuss this with the children and the rewards might be different depending on the child.

You could have set jobs around the house - simple tasks and have a price list so if they help with them they get 10, 20 or 50p. This might motivate them to help out, give them something to do and wouldn’t break the bank.

In terms of money being stolen, this would happen to me once and not again. In this age of cards, easy to live without having any cash. Keep all money/cards etc on your person or under lock and key. If anything like this were to happen again, I would explain to her that this is theft and take her to a police station for a chat with a police officer to help her understand the consequences. She needs to see that her actions have some kind of consequences, at the moment there are none.

If they can’t behave responsibly with pens, again, I’d keep these all under lock and key until such a time they can behave responsibly with them or only allow them to be used under supervision. Consequences for damage from pens would be withdrawal of a privilege which as having a guest over, not grounding which seems to be ineffective on your children as they seem to get even more bored and frustrated.

I think you did the right thing in not allowing the friend over again who misbehaved along with her. As your child is doing this on her own though too, she may be doing the leading astray. As she likes having friends over, perhaps that could be the reward each week?

In terms of throwing/damaging toy items, especially those which are expensive, I’d refuse to replace them so she has the natural consequences flowing from it. I’d also explain too if someone gets hurt from her throwing toys out of the window (this isn’t just a property damage issue, this is a hazard), that this is also an offence if she hurts someone. Frankly though, I’d lock the window to that room so it’s not an option for her to just easily toss items out of the window.

If she is generally impulsive and needs to burn off energy I’d try and build in some soft play/trampolining sessions. If you can’t afford that, I’d suggest taking them to the park several times a week during good weather so they can burn off more of that energy.

If she’s taken on the ‘leadership’ role too with the younger siblings, try and use it to your advantage, stroke her ego a bit and try and get her to help you with them. Although very hard when they’re behaving so badly, try and praise her for any good behaviour even little things like brushing her teeth, getting ready for going out on time, as she needs to be steered towards seeking attention for positive behaviour as most of the reinforcement is of the negative behaviour.

Good luck with it all. Parenting is really hard and I hate it when people criticise and say unkind things without having lived another person’s experiences or write some random waffle. You’re doing the best you can and you’re here because you’re looking for help.

I would also advise watching some parenting videos including some Super Nanny. Not all of what she does will apply here but you will pick up some ideas from seeing them in practice with other children.

With all due respect, you ard making excuses for your daughter. I doubt her friend would have thrown the lego out of the window, without your daughter's approval/participation. You can find lego in grass and she/they should have been sent out to pick it up. Discipline is hard work but it is much easier than having to deal with years of poor behaviour.

She wants help from you and thinks that if she is bad, you will at least notice her.

You need to find out what is troubling her before you punish and scold her.

It is a very thin line between love and discipline. I think you might have found it.

Four kids under ten are always going to be really difficult, OP. I feel your pain. Well done on the job front. That is brilliant. That is going to be your route of your difficulties eventually as more money will really help you with emergency situations but for now you need a more imaginative approach.
firstly, you need to change your mindset. You sound defeatist. You say you’ve tried everything but you haven’t. You need to set rules and stick to them. So they need to know what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. They need to know what the consequences will be. You, DP and child carer need to sit down together and explain clearly what these rules are and what your expectations are. Write them down clearly and stick them on the fridge.
if they break the rules it is no treats. If they make a mess, they get no screen/ fun time until they have tidied up. If they tantrum and roll on the floor send them to their rooms or leave the room until they stop. They get no attention for tantrums. When they are calm/ better behaved sit down and explain to them what has happened and why. Ask why they did it when the rules are clear. Get them to talk about their feelings and behaviour. Don’t get confrontational, just say “that’s interesting and why do you think that is” if they say they are bored etc. They sound like they are crying out for boundaries. You need to set some boundaries. So agree set bedtimes. Agree whose turn it is to get up at 5am with 8 year old. Agree a nutritious breakfast menu. Stop them eating rubbish which fuels sugar highs.
Get them outside every day for part of the day to the park opposite. Get them running around, burning off energy. If they complain ignore them. Tell them in advance we are all going to the park for 45 mins. We are not coming back until 45 mins is over. We are playing on the swings/ doing a treasure hunt/ collecting as many different types of leaves as possible/ running a daily mile -whatever the game is. Then stick to it. Whinging, moaning and tantrums to be ignored. Back home do a daily board game or set up a giant jigsaw puzzle and get them to do a bit every day. Your problem is trying to make everyone do the same thing. Cater to the eight year old. She’s the one who is bored. If the 3 year old can’t play, he sits with the adult and plays with her.
if the six year old can’t do the club/ activity just send the eight year old. They all have different needs. Get a lot more imaginative with games and play and ensure whoever is looking after them is more involved. If they are in their room check up
on them every 15 mins. If they are writing on family furniture in public rooms they are not being supervised well enough. Get rid of the pens. Make some places out of bounds - your bedroom for example. Come down really hard on the stealing, spitting, hitting etc. It’s completely unacceptable.
Be consistent. Don’t give in for an easy life. Team tag with DP and present a united front. Agree thd approach together in advance. Do some parenting classes or online programmes. Find lists of great free imaginative games.
Finally, be aware that it is going to tougher in the holidays. You are going to be exhausted. This is your life just now. It won’t always be like this. Make sure you eat healthily and get plenty sleep and fresh air too. You need your stamina and resilience to get through this. Model the behaviour you want to see in your kids and keep using contraception! Good luck.

Get them all out on long walks. I did that with my four DC so that they were exhausted.

I haven’t read through everyone’s comments so I don’t know if this has been suggested already, but have you considered neurodivergence as a possible factor? I’m autistic/adhd and behaved very similarly to your 8 year old when I was a child, but only received my diagnosis as an adult, because it’s often missed in girls. Not trying to diagnose at all, just worth considering as a possibility, which may open up further resources nearby or extra help via your GP. It all sounds really tough for everyone involved, and I’m sorry that you’re struggling (and then being judged on here as well!).

Sorry OP, I've not read the full thread, but have read your posts. You say that you know people who don't work, but have children more or less the same age as yours. Have you tried asking them if they would take ONE of your children, ie if you know someone who has a 3 year old, would they look after your 3 year old? If you know someone who has a 10 year old, would they be willing to keep an eye on your 10 year old. That would cut down on how much you would need your family member to cope with. You mentioned that your 8 year old, had a friend around, who threw the lego out of the window, does your child ever go to her house? If not, perhaps you could ask her mother to return the favour? The point I'm trying to make, is that you don't necessarily need someone to take all 4 children, but if you could find 4 separate people who would all take one, it could make life a lot easier for everyone. Just my thoughts.

Children are like dogs, if you don't exercise them enough then they'll become destructive.

Yes absolutely and she does that formidably.

also op, you are also doing formidably. If you ask how to do better then you are no less than an amazing mum. Gentle hug.

It does help 100%. Believe me, I was punished in some of these ways, I was bored enough to say sorry/do my homework/read a book etc. heck I was so bored one time I was weeding the garden 😂 I never did whatever was again... I moved on to something else and got punished for that too.
From the sounds of it this child isn't bored, she's pushing boundaries and attention seeking. X

Hi op,sounds really hard indeed and especially if she teaches to the younger ones!

she needs discipline. If at school she is doing really good then it is at home she struggles. It is normal that they “are more difficult” at home but not a complete change of personality.

Discipline, meaning that she needs to loose from her bad behaviors and wins only with good. Grounding is not enough if she enjoys herself at home and plays in bedroom. I wouldn’t touch what she is enjoying “working at” but you should remove any rewards : screen time, devices, special toys, activities for fun etc…
I would also watch who can come to yours. How are they able to do all that? If you can’t supervise them then she can’t bring someone in. I would actually looking at taking out the privilege of bringing friend home if she behaves like this.

good luck op

Op please ignore all the interrogation about your day to day life, it’s not what you asked help with and you don’t have to answer. Remember MN is full of MC people who have a very limited view of the struggles on WC families in the real world.

I have 4 DC so I’d like to think I’ve got some experience here although they’re all teens/20’s now. At your kiddos ages I worked evening and weekends around DH’s full time day job. I appreciate this might be hard for you to find right now but it’s an aim for you.

I agree that 8yo is bored and therefore destructive. But unfortunately being exhausted is no excuse not to parent her. It sounds to me like you need to stand firm with her. She makes a mess then she cleans it. Let her have her tantrum but stand there stony faced and say we won’t be playing x/eating dinner/having movie time (whatever next activity is) until you’ve tidied. You don’t need to shriek and shout. Show no emotion whatsoever but stand firm. When she has tidied move on to next activity but be pleasant and normal with her. The first time might be a long hard slog but it will get easier. And if she’s a danger to herself/someone/something…carry her somewhere safe to finish out the tantrum.

Google NVR Parenting - it is a different approach to changing your response to your children's behaviour and raising your parental presence. I work with families using this approach and it has been helpful for them. Wish you well.

Have you heard of Family Lives? They support parents throughout nearly all the challenges we all sometimes face. I really like the kind, warm, responsible support they give. They say:
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It's really brave of you to reach out on here, I hope you are ok.

supervise your children esp when other kids are there as for the money you need to talk to child to make them understand theh cant just take money thats not theirs , reward charts for keeping room tidy , just keep it simple little chores thst they get bit extra picket money or a treat for , they're finding their feet st thst age but still need watching like hawks

There may be some truth in this but what has been done has been done, the OP cannot rewind getting pregnant and giving birth, so the issues are here to stay or be dealt with. The behaviour of the 8 yr old sounds extreme, beyond my experience of naughty child behaviour. I wonder if it is worth getting her analysed by a child psychologist.

That’s really unusual. I’ve worked full time since my daughter turned 1. I don’t know any SAHM. Why did you choose to have 4 children and live in the middle of nowhere? I’m guessing you don’t live in a city or a big town because there’d be many childcare options available. Everyone has said that your children are acting up because they’re bored, but you’re not doing anything about this. Put them all in childcare.

You needed to be looking into this stuff well before summer. Not half way through. You find the clubs you can access and plan your holidays and time off around them.
And next time they get to the park and moan that they are bored, you say "oh well, we're here until 3pm so you might as well make the best of it". You don't just give up and take them home to moan.

Don’t take too much notice of them moaning they are bored or they have gone off their bikes and scooters. I used to take my dc out and end up carrying the scooters 😆 but it was better than being stuck in and at least they had run around in the fresh air and used up some energy.

@Imissgoldengrahams what hours are you and your DP out of the house? It’s a little confusing from your post.