This is why we should bring back the death penalty

You still fail to consider people who are actually innocent or the proven significant impact on prison officers or those who would end up involved in the execution process. In fact in multiple threads you've repeated ignored the input of anyone working directly with prisoners detailing how it would make things significantly worse/ increasingly unsafe for them doing their jobs.

The only part of the argument you seem in any way concerned with is removing violent criminals from our streets permanently, which I can understand the need for- but no other context.

The law-abiding public deserve to be safe and not to have to pay through the nose to keep prisoners alive and docile/entertained in relative luxury in prison. People talk about rehabilitation and the recidivism rate. Well criminals put to death have a recidivism rate of 0.0%. Crime has increased exponentially since the death sentence was abolished in this country. It's time we had a referendum about the death sentence. If the public wants it, the public should get it, we do live in a democracy after all.

Well there’s no room on our prisons for lengthy sentences and there’s definitely no money for much in the way of improvements

build new prisons? Hmm yes, but who will work in them. We are massively short staffed

But equally and oppositely when Capital Punishment was abandoned I assume (since presumably none of us was around at the time?) that the public expected those people who would have got the death penalty to then be sentenced to Life. That's not what's happening now, time after time I see horrific crimes being given far too lenient sentences which just makes people lose faith in the system.

Plus of course, the impact on others - for example impact on the safety and wellbeing of prison staff. The children and family of the offender who are perhaps all innocent. The impact on a would be executioner of actually carrying out that work. The context of racism etc within policing and the justice system.

It's also a slippery slope in my mind, if you introduce capital punishment for the worst crimes, there will still always be people who push for it to be used more frequently for other types of crimes.

Useful discussion would involve looking at what led to this person getting to this point in their lives, what interventions failed, what interventions were needed but unavailable etc. Learning from people who do awful things is crucial to preventing others from doing the same. It also means holding to account statutory and in some cases voluntary services to account as well as our government who is underfunding both.

The punishment is loss of liberty but to me the role of the justice system is more than that - it's also about public safety and public order, but also in some cases where its appropriate-rehabilitation and working towards the prevention of reoffending.

It's not purely revenge which is why families don't set the sentencing of someone who's harmed a loved one nor do victims. It needs to be just in a wider societal context and that also means in the context of the possibility of miscarriages of justice. Or in the context where someone has been harmed and traumatised to such an extent they become harmful themselves.

Surely the justice system is multifaceted. Keeping the public safe, punishment, deterrent and hopefully, rehabilitation.

Instead of a knee jerk reaction about killing people, the case involved a domestic abuser with a history of violence and social services were involved. He was aggressively intimidating the nurses and no one stopped him. It doesn't seem as though the baby was given proper protection given the circumstances. Perhaps a discussion should centre VAWAG.

In those cases yes, that's the conclusion I've come to.

But isn't what we call Justice/Retribution a form of 'revenge'? We expect people to pay in some way for the crimes they commit. What useful discussion can we have about the type of person who commits the crime cited in the OP?

Are you saying the only “meaningful justice” is the death penalty?

Maybe there is no meaningful justice for those terrible crimes. People seem to think that taking the life of the perpetrator is somehow soothing. And maybe for some it is, but for many it makes no difference at all. It doesn’t bring back the person or take away the pain, and it doesn’t stop it from happening again.

There are usually many warning signs and missed opportunities. Much better - in my view - to put energy and resources into preventing terrible crimes than executing perpetrators after the fact.

We currently have a criminal justice system in which trials are listed 2, 3 or even 4 years ahead. The system now only allows one appeal and it can still take years, decades even.

Comparison to the timeframes of the 1960s is pointless.

Death penalties are expensive as they have to spend so much money on endless appeals - it would be cheaper to do life in prison apparently

That can't become an excuse to lose your own morality and bring in practices that could potentially be harmful to innocent people though. Granted I do think some posters on here are being maybe deliberately concrete in their posting to make a provocative point but that still contributes to a 'revenge' culture which isn't actually helpful to anyone and doesn't actually address any of the key issues that create/fail to identify harmful people in the first place. So it becomes a red herring that time/ energy/resources get wasted on and that detracts from the equivalent spent on actual solutions that have a chance of working. It takes the wheels off a genuine discussion and shuts things down.

I cannot read 35 pages. I saw this article online,a different paper, and that a 6 year old boy running amuck in a hospital ward, picked up and killed a baby.

It's considered a form of torture. I believe Florida can now use any method they like to kill people. The States is rapidly regressing.

You're suggesting that people who want people hanged in court care about miscarriages of justice? Can you explain how?

That’s the main reason I wouldn’t want to bring it back!

But the US system of keeping people
on death row awaiting execution somehow seems worse than the concept of the death penalty itself.

No reason to assume people 'don't care' about miscarriages of justice, don't be so arrogant. Most people are just sickened and in despair at the seemingly endless cases of unbelievable violence and depravity against children and the lack of any meaningful justice for those crimes.

They probably don't, but I think it's worth making the point anyway. It won't persuade them, but it might influence someone

They don't care.

And how many of those executed were innocent?

I don’t think we should bring it back but if it did come back it should be done quickly.

We never had death row in the UK.

In the 50s and 60s you got one appeal and one plea for clemency and it it failed then it was done within three weeks.

Sounds just like what Pontins was like in the 90s!

I feel like once you get to that point juries are long gone and you have one person who acts as judge / executioner ala Dredd.