This is why we should bring back the death penalty

That is an interesting point. I'm against the death penalty for many reasons, but am for assisted dying - as long as there are sufficient precautions and guards against abuse. Perhaps it's just from a selfish point of view? I don't want to be in dreadful pain or lose all my dignity, nor do I want to be a burden for my DC or have my money wasted on care. I know it's not what this thread's about but it's given me some food for thought.

You don't seem to have ever had any experience with victims families. None at all.

I wasnt alluding to it btw, I was responding to it.

Well we already employ soldiers. And the idea of euthanasia also involves paying someone to kill another human being (though one who has consented). So maybe not such a stretch, though yes I think it would impact society.

If that were true, then you'd agree with me that the victims of the families overwhelmingly say they feel closure when the perpetrator dies. Maybe not justice, but all of them say "I feel closure". This is obvious to one who pays even a cursory attention to this topic in America. It's basic. It's not rocket science. So I don't know what you're disagreeing with, then. Are you calling these families liars?

It really does devalue life. I was talking about women being pressured by abusers to end their lives. People were saying that they're going to die anyway.

I'm surprised no one has said that a few innocent lives lost is worth it. One disturbing individual wanted people hanged immediately upon conviction.

This^. Totally agree with everything here.

Cut and dried means that something is settled, in the case of a crime it would mean there is no doubt of being found guilty.

My comment regarding the cut and dry cases often being the most heinous is down to the nature of these crimes which is often what makes them cut and dried to begin with. E.g the public slaughtering of young girls.

That isn't the same as suggesting there is 'a link between strength of evidence and how serious a crime is.'

You're twisting things.

Which brings up an interesting point. On a thread about euthanasia I was arguing that it could be misused to pressure vulnerable people into dying against their will.

Several posters said that even if that happened, it would be worth it to give all the other people the freedom from pain and end to their suffering.

I think the death penalty could be misused and lead to innocent people dying. I wonder if the posters who argued in favour of euthanasia would apply the same logic to the death penalty. Would they say the benefits to the many outweigh the risk to the few?

Correct, but whether we want the state to execute people for being found guilty for crimes like this is complex.

I dont by the way.

Is nobody interested in the impact of society of judicial killing, and the issue of the employment of executioners?

I’m half-inclined to agree with you OP. However, I only think it should be used where there can be absolutely no doubt as to the guilt of the perpetrator e.g. in cases of mass murder in a public place where there are multiple witnesses to the crime, such as the Southport incident, or where the murder is caught on video.

Then educate me.

What are you alluding to?

Yes, let’s hold hands and blame society …again. Anything to avoid holding a grown adult responsible for their own choices!

You couldnt be more wrong

You could say the same about the legalisation of euthanasia in the UK and look where that’s heading…

I've worked in high security prisons. He will wish that he had never been born. Inmates will get to him one way or another, and the prison officers may not have heard/seen what was going on before he is seriously damaged. After that, he will probably be moved to solitary confinement. That won't work either. It is possible that he will try to kill himself. Usually, doesn't work. Too much varied methods of supervision.

I have followed true crime and the DP in America for decades. I have yet to come across one single victim family who say they haven't got closure from the perp being put to death.

Not....one.

You don't seem to have ever had any experience with victims families. None at all.

When the death sentence was abolished, we were told it would be replaced with life sentences and life would mean life. Now we have "life sentences" where criminals are released after only a few years.

How many do you know personally?

Less than me, I guarantee it.

Further........what about evil people who are caught "bang to rights" by your standards, who kill themselves. Is that justice? Did that provide closure?

The victims families would say it is. Either the state kills him (them) or they kill themselves.

Same result, they're dead. Closure.

Many families of victims where the attacker was given the death penalty say it's closure. You read these cases in America, almost of them (unless the body location wasn't revealed) say it's closure. I've never heard of one say they had no closure. So your post is completely at odds with victims families' testimonies.

Further........what about evil people who are caught "bang to rights" by your standards, who kill themselves. Is that justice? Did that provide closure?

And who decides what has been proved without a shadow of a doubt? Derek Bentley was convicted without a shadow of a doubt. As was (as I mentioned) Ruth Ellis.

Careful, your ignorance is showing!

Firstly, most obviously, they are not on the streets.....thats kind of the point of prison.

Secondly, I can tell you first hand that the death of the attacker provides no closure whatsoever. The fact that you can say that with confidence shows me that you dont have a fucking clue what you are talking about. Your knee jerk reaction proves it.

Fair enough. I was pretty sure that you’re not interested in anyone’s opinion but your own.