This is why we should bring back the death penalty

I agree, yes, it is self selecting. But that also means PyongyangKipperbang's testimony is self-selecting, too.

Anyway, I'm out of here as I can't seem to make myself understood and I'm feeling attacked. It's been a good discussion though.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter really in the context of this discussion. Sentencing is not, and should no be about what the victims want.

Wherever you saw this, is immaterial, its self selecting, the families who found "closure" post, the ones that don't, well, don't.

Its also a bit odd, as most people executed in the US have been awaiting their sentence for many years, even decades.

Anyway, as pp have said, the death penatly shouldn't be introduced because of the victims families wishes.

TBH the more i read through this thread, the more i think maybe we have got the balance right with Whole life Orders.

Perhaps you should read this OP. The death sentence is barbaric. No one in their right mind would want to bring it back. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/apr/29/the-sun-does-shine-review-anthony-ray-hinton

I was talking about the death penalty and the victims families in America.

That poster right off the bat said I didn't know what I was talking about, and was ignorant. They were rude, patronising and very aggressive.

Lol you are making assumptions. None of my research is from 'youtube'. But from the actual families statements themselves.

Weren’t you the poster who originally said no family had ever said they didn’t get closure: ‘Not one’.

I would imagine it was that level of certainty based on very little that prompted a response from someone that has unfortunately had some experience to point out that you didn’t really know what you were talking about.

You’ve also repeatedly hectored that poster, incorrectly saying she has accused others of ‘lying’ (very emotive term), telling her she’s ignorant and patronisingly telling her to think about what she’s saying.

You seem to be presenting yourself as some sort of crusader for victims’ rights, but you might want to think yourself about the needlessly aggressive tone you’ve taken on here towards someone who sadly has some first-hand insight into victims’ experiences.

She isn’t saying that none of them feels closure. She isn’t accusing them of lying. She is saying that your Youtube “research” doesn’t represent a universal truth.

You, however, seem to be suggesting that she is lying, or wrong somehow, about the opinions of someone she knows in real life.

You appear to be blinded by your fury.

This is such an unintelligent, arrogant and offensive response.

Your self-selected families of victims on Youtube are unlikely to be lying. This doesn’t mean that all victims’ families everywhere would agree. Surely you can see that?

And attacking PYK in this way is just low.

no. But documentary makers manipulate what is shown.

so if ten families are interviewed then it stands to reason that not all statements will be included, and if the documentary maker wants to arrive at a particular point of view then they will include those statements which represent that point of view.

It’s basic journalism.

Again, why are you assuming I saw a programme? I never mentioned programmes. I am talking about family victim statements. On their own social media. And in their own press statements.

Also, I think you are confusing closure, with justice. They're two different things.

Not true. Go back up. I said many families in America feel closure.

She then called me ignorant and said I didn't know what I was talking about.

So you're saying victims media statements through a family spokesperson or their own statements on social media, not included in documentaries, are 'manipulated'?

whicg are shown as part of <newsflash> documentaries.

Even though i think the death should be looked at again, you re making a assumption that is wrong.

You saw a program where some families had closure but what the fuck does that even mean?
I had none when my partner died in an accident, everyone said after the funeral there is closure no there isn't.

Many years ago, my friends son was killed in a violent attack, 2 youths were jailed for around 14 years each.

The parents never wanted the death penalty, they just hoped the youths would turn their lives around.

There is no "closure" the lad will never walk back into their lives again.

no she didn’t. She said that families don’t necessarily feel closure and that she knows of one who didn’t.

there are also other posters on the thread who have said the same, and from personal experience.

nobody has accused anyone of lying. The only one lying here right now is you.

I also think some may be mistaking closure for justice. You can feel you got no justice, but closure at the death. You can also feel that you've had justice but no closure. You can also feel both at the same time. Or neither. But from the get go I was attacked, told I was lying, the families were lying. I'm ignorant. And, I'm 'not the brightest of bulbs'.

All because I said that these families said they felt closure.

Edited to add that I don't know where PyongyangKipperbang lives but that perhaps there is a difference in a perpetrator taking their own lives or being murdered by someone else, and families in America having to be on tenterhooks for years while the perpetrator gets appeals. So the final act would feel closure to them, after those years of waiting.

I'm not talking about documentaries. I'm talking about actual victim family media statements.

There are many troubling accounts and new laws being passed expanding access to euthanasia in e.g. Canada (https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-toronto-7c631558a457188d2bd2b5cfd360a867)

Given what we know about coercive control and abusive relationships, I think it is naive to say that no one has ever or will ever be pressured into killing themselves.

Now, often people say that these are fringe cases and so the benefit to the many outweighs the risk. I just find it surprising that when it comes to the death penalty, the argument is often switched round - the risk of even one innocent person dying means that the death penalty is unacceptable.

So because you’ve watched some programmes where some? People have said they felt closure only their opinions are the only ones which are valid?

what if the makers of the documentary skewed the footage the other way and only showed from the people who said they didn’t feel closure, because you do know there will have been some right? But this is media, these documentaries are always made to encourage a particular viewpoint.

of course there will be people who say they felt closure. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who didn’t.

true crime is entertainment. The people are real but the desired opinion is manufactured.

Thank you, and that's true. But PyongyangKipperbang is saying that none of them feel closure. That poster is accusing those families of lying, because only their one experience is correct. It's ignorant. Yes, some may not feel closure, and that's understandable. But a lot do. And it's wrong to say they don't when they themselves say they do. PyongyangKipperbang thinks only their one example matters and is true.

I don’t think they’re lying. I don’t think they represent all victims, though. Others will feel differently. I also don’t think victims should be involved in sentencing. That’s why we have a judicial process, not the law of the jungle.

The risk is low but the stakes are high. What about Lucy Letby? Sentenced to 15 whole life term and a year on there is doubt over her convictions..

I knew there'd be a few people here saying they'd happily step forward and press the switch,/fire the gun/pull the lever/swing the axe... What lovely people they are, able to go home to their families and sleep peacefully knowing they'd murdered someone.

Maybe for people like the Southport killer where there is no doubt