Unisex toilets in new office - dread going into work

I would feel uncomfortable using these toilets. Ten or so years ago, all the desks belonging to women in our workplace had to be checked underneath for hidden cameras. A male member of staff had placed one under the desk of a young woman who worked there. I admit it's hardly commonplace but it's ingrained on my consciousness now and I would just have to check every time I went in there!

Why do you think that?

This set up has been rolled out in schools and many workplaces across the country.

I’d be delighted if it wasn’t true but sadly this is very likely to be.

I have worked for a least thirty years where the toilets have been used by either gender and never had a problem with other users. The big problem is not having enough (two cubicles for about thirty people which is probably illegal) but there are alternatives again either gender just up the corridor.
Perhaps it is the type of person I work with

A very good point. The claim about ‘known men’ is so thought terminating. It has obviously terminated thinking for a few on this thread.

I agre it’s a fundamental design flaw but an employer’s responsibility to protect against sexual harassment in the workplace is a much easier way for the OP to stop this behaviour happening. There’s plenty of tribunals that have set a precedence around that whereas there’s very few, if any, solely about toilet provision given the guidance is so new.

I originally had “for the sake of resolving this” before I said the toilets weren’t the issue but took it out, I probably should have left in so it was clear I was being pragmatic rather than advocating for the current set up.

OP, I'm sure it's already been said but cubicles opening in to a room with shared sinks etc aren't legal.

The whoe shebang - loo, sink, sanitary bin needs to be inside a cubicle that is concealed on all sides - floor to ceiling and open onto a public concourse to prevent anyone from being in a separate room behind a closed door with anyone else.

I assume you are referring to a born female ‘trans’ (who may identify as a man or ‘non binary) ? They obviously pose very little risk to safety and obviously privacy as they are female.

Men who identify as women however ARE a problem. Quite a proportion of trans identifying males are heterosexual and have a sexual fetish (which many openly talk about) for themselves as women.

Some are homosexual and it is not fetish driven but from their posts on social media, these ‘trans’ seem more likely to use the mens toilets with no issues.

You may be happy putting yourself at risk of sexual assault or being part of a man’s sexual fetish (social media posts show that some like to listen to women pee, photograph us or steal used sanitary items) but I think most women wouldn’t.

It became quite a big thing with new offices in order to appease trans people. A lot of schools have done the same thing and are now backtracking due to an uptick in sexual assaults and complaints.

Just to add, you need to understand, known men are not 'a demographic'. Known men simply describes their relationship to the victim, not the societal group they belong to. Men who harm women can be found in every demographic. The reasons the figures for domestic abuse are so high isn't because the abusers are in a special group called 'known men', it's down to the increased opportunity for an abuser to abuse and the increased vulnerability of the women in the domestic setting. Increase male opportunity and increase female vulnerability in any setting and abuse stats will rise for that setting.

Seems somewhat unlikely that anyone would go to all the major expense of building new offices that do not comply with the workplace regulations, or indeed that planning authorities would allow them to. Is this a "Wind them up and watch them go" thread?

Start making formal complaints of sexual harassment and inappropriate behaviour in the workplace. Encourage anyone else experiencing the same unacceptable behaviour to do the same. Your workplace owes you a duty of care to provide a safe workplace. Their hands are not tied. They can contact the other business and report the behaviour and seek resolution.

Ok thank you.

While I didn’t specifically use the phrase ‘stranger rapes and sexual assaults’ which I think the 50:50 number refers to, I don’t feel the need to differentiate in this case. Sexual assault is a very serious crime for women and while it could include slightly less ‘invasive’ attacks like inappropriate touching, afaik it also includes penetration as long as it is not with a penis.

I think my point on PPs airy dismissal of this still stands.

As someone who grew up in the 70s, there was the natural consequence getting punched by the girl's brother, dad, uncle, cousin etc. We can't do that anymore.

No-one should have to put up with sexual harrasment in the workplace. That's what this is. OP, as said, take this further and don't back down.

9 pages on and the OP hasn't been back to clarify. I'm wondering if the initial description of the facilities perhaps isn't quite as people are supposing?

The toilets aren’t the issue here, the men are

Cool, let's be like America and have guns because guns aren't the problem, people are.

This attitude can jog right off. We have moved on decades passed this, what was acceptable then isn't now and isn't relevant to this conversation.
A lot of women are nervous in this situation and are entitled to be when some men can be such twats.

What EHRC ruling? If you mean the Supreme Court case, you clearly haven't read it.

The toilets aren’t the issue here, the men are

@rrrrrreattthe toilets are the issue because they provide a space for men who have inappropriate boundaries to be intimidating and sexually offensive in an enclosed space where women are semi dressed and undertaking intimate personal care tasks.

We have single sex toilets to protect women from dodgy and creepy men.

The men are the issue but that is why we design out opportunities for them to harass women. If we stop doing that, but instead design in opportunities for them to harass women, then the design does also become the issue.

I’m particularly annoyed by the comments that blame the OP for being uncomfortable and not telling off the men in the toilet who are harassing her (even though men can become violent or worse when confronted). Not blaming the directors of the companies (usually male) who have done this to women in order to appease a tiny percentage of the population. Yet again, women have to correct the male behaviour and adapt their own behaviour and feelings to accommodate.

Unisex toilets is not some big feminist win, it’s regressive.

But it’s okay, because the rape stats haven’t gone up.

fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

On the rape crisis page linked to, it says 6 in 7 rapes against women are carried out by someone they know which means 1 in 7 are strangers rather than 1 in 2.

Well, hardly. How are they going to resolve something that requires major building works to premises they are sharing? OP's contract is likely to require her to work in the office.

The toilets aren’t the issue here, the men are

I think the fact that there is a law that these toilets are not compliant with means that the toilets very much ARE an issue.

Yeah by these arguments let’s all stop locking our doors at night

This is such a daft argument. So because most assaults are by someone a woman knows, we should forget about safeguarding from other men? How does that make any sense at all?

If this is your thinking, then because most children are assaulted by family members we should get rid of safeguarding in schools, scouts and youth groups and stop teaching children about stranger danger, right?

I think we can all see that would be ridiculous. Especially as safeguarding against strangers is easier than safeguarding against family, so it would be particularly stupid to throw it away.

You said “well said” to the comment that ended with this: I’m sure sharing cubicle toilets in a modern building won’t kill anyone.

So is that the bar now? “It won’t kill you to be sexually harassed in the toilets so suck it up and stop complaining”?