Fed up of my cousins comments about benefits and UC

Also, a further point occurred to me after I hit send.

Your argument is that old people should have protected pensions because they can’t help being old. So let’s run with this. Let’s assume we have a woman who has assessed her options and decided that a life on benefits sounds absolutely delightful (which it’s not) and has frivolously decided to get knocked up at the first opportunity she can. So a baby is born. Has that baby decided to be born into poverty? Have they had any power or choice in what family they’re born into? Of course they haven’t, they’re as helpless to their circumstances as an older person is to aging. Actually no, they’re not are they? Because people have opportunity to save and prepare for retirement. So helpless baby in poverty deserves support from the state to ensure that they don’t starve and have a roof over their head. Because most sensible people realise that the societal cost of a child in poverty is HUGE (in terms of health and ability to grow into a productive tax paying adult).

Have you honestly considered any of this or is it just more funsies to keep on the benefits are bad/people are scroungers bandwagon? I get it, people tend to like this as they seem to prefer to think that their own circumstances are down to their own hard work and that a big ol’ chunk of it isn’t down to dumb fucking luck.

So people who have children who then become poor (loss of a spouse, redundancy, life changing illness etc) should do what? Send em to the work house? We could argue that modern medicine has meant that people are now living MUCH longer lives (& pension age only slightly catching up to this) so why should working age folk fund this through our NI contributions given they can’t help aging anymore than some people can’t change their financial circumstances after having children? (Just to be clear, I don’t actually believe this but it makes as much sense as your point about preventing pregnancy).

I also think its naive (and I’m being generous there because stupid is not a nice word) to assume that every woman who becomes pregnant does so with their consent.

And while we’re at it, the whole ‘poor people shouldn’t have children’ argument sounds dangerously close to eugenics. And while you’re of course entitled to your opinion, I’m equally entitled to think it’s disgusting.

So how does that work then. What do you expect a parent to do whose circumstances changes? Do you want forced abortion based on salary?

I slog my guts out working full time, but I also get UC because I'm a single parent and have 2 kids in full time nursery. I'm single because my ex was violent, and he pays the bare minimum in CM, which is less than a quarter of their nursery bill every month.

It's easy to judge, but I'm not sure you'd like to swap places with a single parent if you had the opportunity.

I don't want people HAVING children if they are in poverty.
You can prevent having a child. You can't prevent ageing.

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@XenoBitch I love in Bath-lha here on a 1 bed flat is I believe £740. I defy you to get anything remotely ok under £1000 , even if you move somewhere close enough to have friends or family in the surrounding 12 miles it being under £880 . - unless of course you can get social housing - so when people put LTB unless you are coming out with a lot of equity or a very good salary, for many it’s really not that straight forward and hence decisions are made that don’t seem logical. I am 63 , people just say , get an over 55 flat, again in this area and surrounding you can be number 83 on the list. If you are in a secure situation I don’t think many realise how precarious it is for others not in their fortunate position

This.

The LHA for my area is £620pm. The cheapest 1 bed flat I found is £725pm. Even rooms in shared houses are more than £620. You get even less if you are under 35 and expected to house share.

I assume you’re supportive of all other benefit payments too then? Because if we don’t want old people to be poor we also probably don’t want children growing up in poverty.

@LakieLady thank you for bringing this up too - so many people already in a poor situation using a fair old chunk of money that is needed for food and utilities simply to make sure the rent gets paid because housing allowance is so way off the mark unless in a very cheap area or social housing - and even in social housing some of the rents these days are borderline close to the housing allowance and occasionally more

I’m sorry :(

I also forgot to mention the fact that the same people who whinge about the benefits bill also seem to whinge about single mothers as though they spontaneously get pregnant themselves 😂 if there was half as much rage about useless men not paying to support their children adequately, the world would be a better place ❤️ I for one absolutely applaud you for what you’re doing and think you deserve every penny of support x

This is the position one of my friends is in. She has significant MH problems but has been refused PIP so doesn’t get any extra element for disability. She pays £550 pm for a private bedsit and UC cover £400 of that, plus a personal allowance of £380 a month. She works part time as a carer and her take home pay is less than £500 a month. So less than £700 left for bills, food, travel to work and everything else.

@sameoldme this is what many don't realise. Really annoys me.

Very true, 40k earner here but still have to claim UC to just about survive as a single mother. Should be a decent wage but the cost of 'affordable housing' and childcare means I literally have no choice.

@Crikeyalmighty I must add on my post that I meant to say ‘’some’ of those claiming are grade A at knowing the system inside out - I’m very aware indeed that there are lots of hard working but low or lowish paid families claiming , often due to very high housing costs or childcare costs and plenty who are genuinely unable to work due to severe illness/disability.

@Frazzled83 Hear hear! Very well said.

It’s a hard one because I remember being a single disabled adult working incredibly hard just to get by whilst my partner at the times mum admitted she lied about the severity of her mental health so she didn’t have to work. She would laugh about conning the system and saying her anxiety was so severe that she couldn’t leave her home - yet she used her benefit money at the pub each day.

My disability has now got to the point where I have no other choice than to rely on the benefit system, so I can see all aspects of the fact that there are genuine people who use it as a net to give a liveable wage, to help if they are disabled, to help work around children and childcare. There are so many scenarios that it is there and contributes towards helping people - but it can’t stop a lot of us feeling bitter about the people who choose not to work and con the system because they know the system is there that enables these people to do that

Someone earning 38k full time will be in a totally different position and hourly rate to me so they have no reason to be annoyed when the situations are not comparable.

Interesting how I was told on another thread recently that 100k isn’t a high salary but yet I’m told on a benefits thread that 38k is.

Ok, so socialism is about the people (through government) collectively owning means of production (which is less clear in these post industrial times but that aside) meaning that systems work for the collective benefit of those working in them rather than a few private individuals. So firstly, interested to hear what feels so terrible about that to you?

Secondly, the pearly clutching about socialism always makes me giggle when this country is SO FAR away from a socialist model it’s ridiculous. We live in a neoliberal capitalist society which over the last 14 years has gone absolutely turbo capitalist and in doing so the gap between the very wealthy, the ‘middle class’ and the poor has widened at a terrifying rate (thanks Boris and all those lovely PPE bungs etc etc etc). The wealthy pay disproportionately less of their overall income back into the system and are effectively hoarding resources at the top (no trickling down that I can see) while the rest of us slog our guts out to pay tax and keep ourselves in a relatively comfortable situation. Which everyone can agree is getting increasingly difficult. And what I think is MOST perverse about this is the sheer number of people who think that the people at the bottom needing top ups from UC to keep a roof over their kids heads and tummy’s fed, often doing essential jobs like nursing are to blame, not the greedy pigs at the top who are frankly pissing themselves laughing at the rest of us mere mortals. I mean, look at the likes of besos, musk et al - do we really think this is how a fair and just society looks? Do you think they give the tiniest shiny shit about what it’s like in the real world? Nah. They don’t.

I would recommend reading up on the impact of inequality across everything including mental and physical health and productivity and then tell me we’re nearly communist. I’d honestly be angry about this comment if it wasn’t so utterly ridiculous. It would be like getting angry with my toddler when she wants to tell me that her yellow crayon is actually purple.

Even if your opinion is.. people on universal credit and benefits are taking the piss most people would wait to slag off benefit claimants when they are not in the presence of a friend who claims it. In doing so she is pretty blatantly voicing that your lifestyle is so wrong that she really doesn’t like you.
I have a friend who claims benefits, I have my opinions but I am aware they would upset and offend her, so I keep them to myself in her company.

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I think as I’ve said before that the system is creating issues - we will end up with a load of women once kids have left home suddenly realising they are going to get next to naff all from benefits , especially if they don’t rent - plus sod all of any substance on their CVs. The other big issue is with modest earnings and top ups is that in my opinion it encourages people to remain on their own , especially with kids - now given the arsehole partners and Hs on here I’m not sure if I can say that a bad thing , but I do think it means that many remain separate in order to be able to maximise claims, or in the case of someone I know ‘split up’ But don’t , if you get my drift - he’s round there most of the time but on paper lives at his mums - together they would qualify for nowt, apart they do quite nicely . And for those who think this kind of shenanigans is rare it really isn’t . People talk about tax evasion amongst the well off, those at the claiming level sadly can be absolute masterminds at maximising their screwing of the state - and I’m not a right winger, just sadly very aware how many have this mindset.

the annoyed people who get nothing are often the middle income ( at best) earners in couples with or without kids, married or not .

@cadburyeggso with your 30 hours, your wage plus top ups gives you the equivalent of a £38k salary.

When you worked the lesser hours in your first example, your wage plus top ups gave you the equivalent of a £29k salary.

I just ran the total net amounts through a salary through a salary calculator

I know you’re pointing out that you’re better off for working more. I’m pointing out that UC tops up part time salaries to a fairly decent full time salary. So I can see why those who are working full time for those salaries might be annoyed

What? I work 30 hours.

My salary is 35k, if I worked full time I’d be on 43k

She’s pointing out she’s better off working more not less and having it subsidised by UC as others have been saying about op being part time