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To think there are very few allies against Anti-Semitism?

657 replies

Longingdreamer · 24/07/2025 14:04

This month, I have had experienced Anti-Semitism twice. Both times I was with my children.

Both times, my children were distressed, and no one around did anything to protect us or raise the alarm. When we asked for help, we were dismissed. We were in very busy public spaces both times: a tube platform, then a high street.

I reported the first episode to the police. I'm not even sure if it's worth reporting the second episode. Sadly it feels so mainstream, and the authorities are not supportive when I report it either.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Longingdreamer · 27/07/2025 22:30

nomas · 27/07/2025 21:58

Racists don’t discriminate. Have you heard what the EDL chant when marching?
Marching through areas like Tower Hamlets and chanting “Muslims out” and “Pakis out”.

No, I haven't been to any EDL marches. I haven't accidentally come across them either, despite being regularly out and about in London.

I have however come across the weekly marches in central London, and other marches, including in my local area. They openly hold banners with swastikas and Anti-semitic slogans, and the police do not challenge this. They are regular and impossible to avoid, and designed to intimidate and promote hatred.

OP posts:
TaupeLemur · 27/07/2025 22:07

‘I’ve not seen people accuse other groups of lying’

well that’s clearly nonsense. Have a read about Jess Carter and the racial abuse she suffered and then look at the literally 1000s of racist comments accusing her of ‘playing the race card’ or lying or saying THEY hadn’t seen any racism.
victims of homophobia, racism etc are
frequently accused of lying.

nomas · 27/07/2025 21:58

Voxon · 27/07/2025 20:14

A few people have mentioned racism to other groups. I'm sure it happens. I've seen it happen

But I've not since the 70s seem crowds or people emboldened to openly racially abuse people.

I've not seen people accuse other groups of lying.

The point is, like you say, there's no allies for Jews. They're sneered at generally if they even mention it and its perfectly socially acceptable- trendy even - to bully them.

That's what's so sinister.

Racists don’t discriminate. Have you heard what the EDL chant when marching?
Marching through areas like Tower Hamlets and chanting “Muslims out” and “Pakis out”.

TaupeLemur · 27/07/2025 21:43

‘They would refuse to do a business meeting with an Israeli company - something they would not refuse from anywhere else in the world. ’

I would avoid an Israeli company right now
with a barge pole for several reasons but yes MORAL reasons would be part of that. But NO they would not be the only one - Russia is another one,
for obvious reasons. Just as we had sanctions against South African during apartheid -
hitting countries economically is sometimes the only way to protest.

Longingdreamer · 27/07/2025 21:40

stonecutter · 27/07/2025 20:35

I am increasingly worried at the direction things are going.

It started off as “I am criticising the Israeli government not Jews” but it’s shifted to “well that specific incidence of antisemitism was wrong because they’re Jews but they’re not Israelis” as if Israeli citizens would deserve it.

When you call this out, people quote polls stating that Israelis support “what is happening”. When you look into it, a lot of polls are being quoted are taken out of context, misquoted, mistranslated etc. Even leaving the reliability of the polls aside, I find it a very strange argument for pro-Palestinian people to make given the polls showing support for Hamas in Gaza after October 7th.

Then they say “well that’s because they’re oppressed so it’s understandable” without a hint of irony considering Jewish history.

Then they’ll mention settlers and settler violence. I don’t support settlers at all. You can say the government hasn’t done enough and even argue they’ve encouraged it - but some civilians doing bad things doesn’t mean everyone who lives in a country is responsible. Just like how lots of Palestinian civilians took part in the October 7th attacks. It doesn’t mean then everyone is responsible right?

The oppressor vs oppressed narrative is so cemented that most people cannot see Israel as anything other than rich white evil colonisers rubbing their hands together with glee. This isn’t helped by the number of TikTok historians around who have really no clue about the history of it all.

When people say that they are criticising the Israeli government, often they’re not saying “a proportionate response would have looked like x” or “they should have done X to allow aid in” or “I believe war crimes have been committed” or “I don’t believe Netenyahu wants the war to end” or even “I think Netanyahu is a massive psychopath”.

It is that often they’re saying that Israel is uniquely evil (both the government and everyone living there), that Israel should not exist, that if Iran did wipe them out they’d deserve it. They deny atrocities that took place on October 7th including those literally captured on video. They see any concern for the hostages as not caring about Gaza and accuse you of seeing Gazans as lesser humans. They often are unwilling to acknowledge or condemn even the brutal murder of the Bibas family nor the horrific parades that took place handing the hostages or the bodies back.

I have seen online communities banning people for pointing out during the “14000 dead babies” fiasco that the claim was untrue AFTER it had been retracted. I mean if anything - surely there’s enough truth out there that warrants outrage without needing to spread misinformation on purpose.

It’s not criticising the Israeli government’s actions that I have an issue with. It’s the extreme hatred of Israel’s existence that is very frightening.

And so now we have gone from the issue being “Israeli government” to “Zionists” to “Israelis” and now it’s already shifting and I increasingly just see “Jews”. This has already started being justified - as I predicted it would - with the claim that because most Jews are Zionists it’s ok to say it.

I do think that people are not understanding how tiring it is day to day when most Jews are politically homeless and the mainstream position is increasingly that Jews must prove they are the good kind of Jew by publicly and unequivocally denouncing Israel.

There is this whole side on the left who claims to believe in inclusivity - in believing a minority group when they tell you what is offensive. In allowing everyone to be themselves no matter what. Allowing people to define their own identity and culture. In embracing and celebrating diversity. It’s become increasingly apparent that they mean “everyone except Jews”.

These same people are the people who I see disbelieving accounts of hate crimes. They unfriend me when I post a story on social media about a European child being the victim of an antisemitic attack. They see no issue with Edinburgh Fringe stopping Jews from performing.

These are the people who go quiet when they find out a colleague is Jewish. They would refuse to do a business meeting with an Israeli company - something they would not refuse from anywhere else in the world. They’re people who - on cultural diversity day - would not allow an Israeli flag to be hung.

These are the people who say things out loud like “ a lot of Jews think they’re better than everyone” - something they would literally not say about any other minority. There is this massive hypocritical gap there in which their values apply to everyone except for Jews. And I mean to the extreme that I have seen my lefty friends chastise someone for stating that breeding kinks are a bit weird because - and I quote - “kink shaming isn’t cool”.

Of course it’s not everyone. Of course a lot of people really are just criticising the Israeli government and are desperately sad about the plight of Palestinians and want them to have their own state. It’s very likely that our positions are not actually that far apart, but I support Israel’s continued existence and do not buy into the black and white one sided narrative being pushed.

I find it interesting how often people say “well you have to look at it with context and understand the history of insert black people/Palestinians/trans people etc. and what they have been through to understand why they might feel that way. We need to listen to authentic voices and encourage representation.” Yet somehow within this narrative, Jews are NEVER the underdog or the persecuted or even a valid minority. They are never included in lists of minority groups who are treated badly.

Thank you, that's so insightful.

The rise in Anti-Semitism in this country just reinforces the need for Israel to exist, it will lead to more people making Aliyah.

I do really despair for the future of myself and my children in the UK.

OP posts:
stonecutter · 27/07/2025 20:35

I am increasingly worried at the direction things are going.

It started off as “I am criticising the Israeli government not Jews” but it’s shifted to “well that specific incidence of antisemitism was wrong because they’re Jews but they’re not Israelis” as if Israeli citizens would deserve it.

When you call this out, people quote polls stating that Israelis support “what is happening”. When you look into it, a lot of polls are being quoted are taken out of context, misquoted, mistranslated etc. Even leaving the reliability of the polls aside, I find it a very strange argument for pro-Palestinian people to make given the polls showing support for Hamas in Gaza after October 7th.

Then they say “well that’s because they’re oppressed so it’s understandable” without a hint of irony considering Jewish history.

Then they’ll mention settlers and settler violence. I don’t support settlers at all. You can say the government hasn’t done enough and even argue they’ve encouraged it - but some civilians doing bad things doesn’t mean everyone who lives in a country is responsible. Just like how lots of Palestinian civilians took part in the October 7th attacks. It doesn’t mean then everyone is responsible right?

The oppressor vs oppressed narrative is so cemented that most people cannot see Israel as anything other than rich white evil colonisers rubbing their hands together with glee. This isn’t helped by the number of TikTok historians around who have really no clue about the history of it all.

When people say that they are criticising the Israeli government, often they’re not saying “a proportionate response would have looked like x” or “they should have done X to allow aid in” or “I believe war crimes have been committed” or “I don’t believe Netenyahu wants the war to end” or even “I think Netanyahu is a massive psychopath”.

It is that often they’re saying that Israel is uniquely evil (both the government and everyone living there), that Israel should not exist, that if Iran did wipe them out they’d deserve it. They deny atrocities that took place on October 7th including those literally captured on video. They see any concern for the hostages as not caring about Gaza and accuse you of seeing Gazans as lesser humans. They often are unwilling to acknowledge or condemn even the brutal murder of the Bibas family nor the horrific parades that took place handing the hostages or the bodies back.

I have seen online communities banning people for pointing out during the “14000 dead babies” fiasco that the claim was untrue AFTER it had been retracted. I mean if anything - surely there’s enough truth out there that warrants outrage without needing to spread misinformation on purpose.

It’s not criticising the Israeli government’s actions that I have an issue with. It’s the extreme hatred of Israel’s existence that is very frightening.

And so now we have gone from the issue being “Israeli government” to “Zionists” to “Israelis” and now it’s already shifting and I increasingly just see “Jews”. This has already started being justified - as I predicted it would - with the claim that because most Jews are Zionists it’s ok to say it.

I do think that people are not understanding how tiring it is day to day when most Jews are politically homeless and the mainstream position is increasingly that Jews must prove they are the good kind of Jew by publicly and unequivocally denouncing Israel.

There is this whole side on the left who claims to believe in inclusivity - in believing a minority group when they tell you what is offensive. In allowing everyone to be themselves no matter what. Allowing people to define their own identity and culture. In embracing and celebrating diversity. It’s become increasingly apparent that they mean “everyone except Jews”.

These same people are the people who I see disbelieving accounts of hate crimes. They unfriend me when I post a story on social media about a European child being the victim of an antisemitic attack. They see no issue with Edinburgh Fringe stopping Jews from performing.

These are the people who go quiet when they find out a colleague is Jewish. They would refuse to do a business meeting with an Israeli company - something they would not refuse from anywhere else in the world. They’re people who - on cultural diversity day - would not allow an Israeli flag to be hung.

These are the people who say things out loud like “ a lot of Jews think they’re better than everyone” - something they would literally not say about any other minority. There is this massive hypocritical gap there in which their values apply to everyone except for Jews. And I mean to the extreme that I have seen my lefty friends chastise someone for stating that breeding kinks are a bit weird because - and I quote - “kink shaming isn’t cool”.

Of course it’s not everyone. Of course a lot of people really are just criticising the Israeli government and are desperately sad about the plight of Palestinians and want them to have their own state. It’s very likely that our positions are not actually that far apart, but I support Israel’s continued existence and do not buy into the black and white one sided narrative being pushed.

I find it interesting how often people say “well you have to look at it with context and understand the history of insert black people/Palestinians/trans people etc. and what they have been through to understand why they might feel that way. We need to listen to authentic voices and encourage representation.” Yet somehow within this narrative, Jews are NEVER the underdog or the persecuted or even a valid minority. They are never included in lists of minority groups who are treated badly.

Voxon · 27/07/2025 20:14

A few people have mentioned racism to other groups. I'm sure it happens. I've seen it happen

But I've not since the 70s seem crowds or people emboldened to openly racially abuse people.

I've not seen people accuse other groups of lying.

The point is, like you say, there's no allies for Jews. They're sneered at generally if they even mention it and its perfectly socially acceptable- trendy even - to bully them.

That's what's so sinister.

Longingdreamer · 27/07/2025 20:08

SpaceRaccoon · 27/07/2025 17:33

I don’t think you were at a tube station.

Do you disbelieve all victims of hate crimes, or just the Jewish ones?

Thank you @SpaceRaccoon , you got there quicker than I did!

A Londoner at a tube station is hardly far fetched, sadly not is a Jew experiencing Anti-Semitism in London.

OP posts:
SpaceRaccoon · 27/07/2025 17:33

I don’t think you were at a tube station.

Do you disbelieve all victims of hate crimes, or just the Jewish ones?

Dideon · 27/07/2025 17:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Comedycook · 27/07/2025 17:17

I dread to think what the statistics for anti semetic hate crime would be if we were always immediately identifiable as Jewish...I know obviously some people are visibly Jewish...so sorry I really dislike that term...but absolutely many us go about our day to day lives without anyone knowing. Sometimes I walk down the street and wonder what would happen to me if people knew or how would I be treated? As it is I have had many people say terrible things to me assuming I'm not Jewish and will nod/laugh along.

NellitheNelephant · 27/07/2025 17:11

SpaceRaccoon · 27/07/2025 16:38

I don't think that a lot of people are knowingly anti-semitic, but I think that they could end up saying things that could be deemed anti-semitic because they haven't even understood that they are using certain anti-semitic tropes

Unfortunately a lot of social media is a cesspit of antisemitism, and it's got a lot worse recently.

It is actually laughable to suggest that jewish people are more put upon than, say, black people.

I don't find any of it laughable personally. It's two different issues, anyway - Jewish people are actually in physical danger at present. They have literally been raped and murdered for being Jewish recently in France, which I find deeply shocking.

I agree with you mostly, but would also say that black people are also raped and murdered for being black in the UK. We don't get told about every single murder and rape in the land. Only a few select crimes make the news. There is absolutely no point in trying to say that one group suffers more than another.

I do get however that anti-semitism might seem invisible or to go under the radar, but I never understand why comparing it to the way that we deal with other kinds of racism is helpful. Anti-black racism has been made so visible because of the efforts of black people, not because people prefer to campaign for anti-black racism over anti-semitism.

Longingdreamer · 27/07/2025 17:05

NellitheNelephant · 27/07/2025 16:33

It is actually laughable to suggest that jewish people are more put upon than, say, black people. Diane Abbott tried to make this point and did it in the clumsiest of ways.

I don't think that a lot of people are knowingly anti-semitic, but I think that they could end up saying things that could be deemed anti-semitic because they haven't even understood that they are using certain anti-semitic tropes; again, Diane Abbott is a case in point in my opinion. She should actually know better, but there you go. What I mean is that it is actually very easy to come across as anti-semitic (even more so than, for example an anti-black racist) through sheer ignorance, especially if you are moved by the current plight of the Palestinian civilians. I know people hate anti-discrimination initiatives but I think the only way people can understand these things is to be educated and informed.

It is not laughable, it is fact based on current statistics of hate crime in this country. It shouldn't be a competition though. A race to the bottom does not help anyone.

Calling it 'laughable' is incredibly offensive, to those who are experiencing Anti-Semitism, and have in the past. Please open your history book, and look at the pogroms in Eastern Europe, followed by the Holocaust, and educate yourself.

OP posts:
Longingdreamer · 27/07/2025 17:02

Voxon · 26/07/2025 11:49

I think there's an awful lot of denial going on with the group who are fuelling the antisemitism.

The simple fact is, directing disproportionate ire and hate at Israel can be a way of expressing antisemitism.

Why do I think these marches and protests do this rather than support humanitarian aims?

Because they started on the day Israel was invaded, before they'd launched a single missile in response.

Because they often include antisemitism signs, swastikas, antisemitic chants, heil hitler hand gestures.

Because those participating in them also participate in actions such as targeting Jewish businesses, and individuals or tearing down hostage posters.

Because they often deliberately positio themselves to intimidate Jews, for example by being outside sysnogues.

Because those engaging in the movement also engage in antisemitic tropes directed at either Jews, Israelis or Israel- for example, blood libel or comments about Jews controlling governments.

Because the volume and level of obsession is completely disproportionate.

The scale and frequency of pro-Palestine protests in the UK since October 2023 is completely unprecedented in modern British history.

No humanitarian crisis, conflict, or injustice, whether apartheid South Africa, the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, the Rohingya genocide, Syria, or Ukraine, has ever triggered such sustained, nationwide mobilisation.

Week after week, marches have filled central London and other cities, often drawing hundreds of thousands. In terms of turnout, consistency, and geographic spread, nothing comes close.

This is not a normal protest movement - it’s a mass mobilisation of a kind never seen before for any other global cause. That alone should raise questions as it smacks of an obvious truth that people are particularly interested in demonising the one Jewish state.

I think all of it is part of a concerted effort to target Jews for hate, from every aspect of life - trying to exclude them in schools or in work settings, trying to make them feel unsafe... to me it's no different to 1930s Germany in its intent and volume.

I think that unfortunately it's being done under the guise of moral superiority, but it's obvious to me what's going on.

I'm so sorry for Jewish people. Some of us are trying hard to speak up for you.

Absolutely, I fully agree.

There is so much misinformation, and downright untruths, spread about Israel.

The media is incredibly biased, and unfortunately most people lack the critical thinking skills to appraise what they read.

The misuse of the word 'genocide' is perhaps the biggest example of this, given how the death toll is not validated, nor is the number of civilians versus fighter deaths, and that there is nothing to qualify this claim even based on Hamas statistics.

By contrast, far more have died in Darfur, but it barely gets a mention. Few people in the West know about the conflict in Ethiopia and Eritrea either. There are many more examples, but when Jews cannot be blamed, the world is not interested.

OP posts:
CleverButScatty · 27/07/2025 16:45

PurpleThistle7 · 24/07/2025 14:50

I still have no idea what you mean. But I’m guessing I won’t like it.

I think they are referring to the misuse of the phrase anti-Semitic against anyone who opposes Israel's actions, that it has (wrongly) lost its impact in cases of actual anti-Semitism as in racism against Jews.

SpaceRaccoon · 27/07/2025 16:38

I don't think that a lot of people are knowingly anti-semitic, but I think that they could end up saying things that could be deemed anti-semitic because they haven't even understood that they are using certain anti-semitic tropes

Unfortunately a lot of social media is a cesspit of antisemitism, and it's got a lot worse recently.

It is actually laughable to suggest that jewish people are more put upon than, say, black people.

I don't find any of it laughable personally. It's two different issues, anyway - Jewish people are actually in physical danger at present. They have literally been raped and murdered for being Jewish recently in France, which I find deeply shocking.

NellitheNelephant · 27/07/2025 16:33

Voxon · 25/07/2025 09:34

YANBU

I think there's two issues.

First, people can't seem to apply the same moral standards to Jews as they do other minorities. They have a fantasy picture of Jews as rich and white, and therefore consider them suitable targets.

Secondly, all the organisations and people who are meant to "fight racism" are themselves antisemitic. And they've therefore refused to identify antisemitism within their own ranks.

I'm very sorry you're experiencing this. Many of us stand with you.

It is actually laughable to suggest that jewish people are more put upon than, say, black people. Diane Abbott tried to make this point and did it in the clumsiest of ways.

I don't think that a lot of people are knowingly anti-semitic, but I think that they could end up saying things that could be deemed anti-semitic because they haven't even understood that they are using certain anti-semitic tropes; again, Diane Abbott is a case in point in my opinion. She should actually know better, but there you go. What I mean is that it is actually very easy to come across as anti-semitic (even more so than, for example an anti-black racist) through sheer ignorance, especially if you are moved by the current plight of the Palestinian civilians. I know people hate anti-discrimination initiatives but I think the only way people can understand these things is to be educated and informed.

lovemeblender · 27/07/2025 16:24

DestituteDesperate · 26/07/2025 17:50

Not in the UK especially London on such a large and violent scale as the Gaza protests.

I am in the UK, in a much smaller city than London and I have attended protests for the above, and I am by no means a social activist. There have been multiple large protests in London regarding the Uighurs.

DestituteDesperate · 27/07/2025 12:31

freakyfriday23 · 27/07/2025 09:43

You're brave OP. I haven't read through yet but am guessing the usual hard left jew haters have posted their usual bile. I'm wondering how many posts in until Gaza is mentioned or the usual suspects suggesting that jew hatred isn't a thing. Tbh my heart sinks when I see jewish related posts away from the safety of the Jewish board. I agree with you btw in that jew hatred has gone through the roof. I've never known so much. Always from one of 2 places. Never known anything like it. I don't look jewish so I get it in an indirect way as people spout off and assume I agree with them. Always funny to see their faces when I tell them I am of the Jewish faith 😄

I am really concerned about how cowardly people are, there seems to be rather little solidarity with the ordinary Jewish person on the street.

ironically, when I express my support to the Jewish community, people are shocked because I’m of mixed heritage and race and I’m a Catholic.

unfortunately, the Jewish community historically have been the punching bag for all and I just feel sorry that Jewish people in the UK who have nothing to do with a conflict in the Middle East, are being treated appallingly and it’s fashionable to do so.

mumandmumber · 27/07/2025 12:27

sophistitroll · 27/07/2025 10:46

I mean seriously that’s just BS made up by posters. The number of Jewish people who are pro Palestine and anti Israel and are vocal about it is minute yet all these people on MN know them all. Most Jewish people are pro Israel in that they believe in the existence of Israel. Many many are anti the current government and and feel the actions have gone way too far and will speak out about it. However they’re absolutely not out there flying Palestinian flags and attending marches because, bottom line, they know that Israel could one day be their only option for relatively safely from anti Semitism.

Well said @sophistitroll
Every Jewish / Israeli person I know (lots! Family & friends) is critical & appalled at the Israeli Government’s actions, but they are Zionists (not a dirty word!). And they couldn’t be on those marches and they daren’t share anything on social media or anything. Because it feels too dangerous. For exactly the reasons you state.

sophistitroll · 27/07/2025 10:46

Comedycook · 24/07/2025 15:08

All the Jewish people I know are vocally and actively critics of Israel and pro Palestine and hate what is done in their name

Oh yawn...how many times do we have to hear this. Loads of Jewish people on the marches blah blah blah

I mean seriously that’s just BS made up by posters. The number of Jewish people who are pro Palestine and anti Israel and are vocal about it is minute yet all these people on MN know them all. Most Jewish people are pro Israel in that they believe in the existence of Israel. Many many are anti the current government and and feel the actions have gone way too far and will speak out about it. However they’re absolutely not out there flying Palestinian flags and attending marches because, bottom line, they know that Israel could one day be their only option for relatively safely from anti Semitism.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 27/07/2025 09:51

I’m sorry to say that I think there was always a significant element of anti-semitism in the U.K., but it was generally latent. But it’s ‘easy’ now to equate ‘anti-Semitic’ with ‘anti-Israeli’, so people who don’t - or don’t want to - understand the difference, feel free to give vent to their opinions.

freakyfriday23 · 27/07/2025 09:43

You're brave OP. I haven't read through yet but am guessing the usual hard left jew haters have posted their usual bile. I'm wondering how many posts in until Gaza is mentioned or the usual suspects suggesting that jew hatred isn't a thing. Tbh my heart sinks when I see jewish related posts away from the safety of the Jewish board. I agree with you btw in that jew hatred has gone through the roof. I've never known so much. Always from one of 2 places. Never known anything like it. I don't look jewish so I get it in an indirect way as people spout off and assume I agree with them. Always funny to see their faces when I tell them I am of the Jewish faith 😄

SpaceRaccoon · 27/07/2025 09:14

A comedian has been cancelled from performing at the Fringe Festival for being Jewish. I'm so profoundly disturbed at what is happening in 2025. Apparently his views - free the hostages, peace in the region - are incompatible with the venue's values, whatever they may be.

https://x.com/PhilipsComedy/status/1949195621774323790

https://x.com/PhilipsComedy/status/1949195621774323790