To this is absolutely insane! Universal Credit Sanction

The employment tribunal wouldn’t have been just because the boss said one thing nasty about a member of staff @Flumpflimpo !!

It all sounds a bit shit OP, and hard to know what to do.

Be interesting to see how AI interprets her CV.

Have you tried putting something in the cover note like "I hope you will give me the opportunity to explain the gaps on my CV"?

Will Denmark do?
I work as an advisor at a jobcenter. Socialwork includes employment here, and I am a sw though most of my colleagues are not. I work with the insured unemployed (public sector workers) in one of the larger county councils. With those who have insurance it's not the jobcenter who sanctions job seekers - it's the insurance company, and they really do vary. A missed appointment will mean no money until you contact the jobcenter again. I am obligated to inform the insurance companies if someone isn't upholding their end of the deal, or even if I suspect they're not. Someone who repeatedly misses appts would probably not be sanctioned for that but might be under more scrutiny - they would check the joblog more often for example. If they failed to turn up to activation then they really wouldn't be given any benefit of the doubt.

I am responsible for making sure that they are activated (work experience or a course) and that the activation is appropriate for their needs. Job seekers are as a rule expected to apply for a minimum of 2 jobs per week within a radius of 3 hours of transport time on public transport. If you have caring responsibilities then I can excuse you from evening and night shifts. You can get benefits for 1 year if you are a new graduate or 2 years if you have worked ft for one year. My clients meet with me about once a month to check in and see how everything is going. I usually get good feedback that they feel supported and heard which is nice.

Some people do take the piss. The vast majority do not, but we all make mistakes. I really try to guide so they don't make mistakes.

If you're uninsured then you get less money, and are supposed to be in constant activation. Don't quote me on that though because there's a new reform that's kicking in and it's not my department. Most people working with this and other groups are sw.

She needs to talk to ger gp about her mental health

I don’t think anyone has said ‘miracle cure’ but posters are looking at op’s dd situation rather than other examples which may be more extreme, such as below.

@Rosscameasdoody It's such a pity that there isn't a way of sorting out work environments so that they are a) not a cause of MH problems and b) welcoming places where those who are already suffering can seek respite and take advantage of the distractions offered by a job. As it is, those who tend to thrive in the workplace are those who can play politics and many can't and wouldn't want to.

@PandoraSocks Love your post! I can never decide whether to spend mine on gin or a nice bottle of rosé. And if gin should it be Bombay Sapphire or Gordons?

Not everyone is in the same position - that’s the point. These sanctions apply to claimants who have nowhere else to turn and are responsible for their own living costs. And it’s hugely unreasonable of you to assume that OP can afford to subsidise her DD living at home.

Work is not a miracle cure for mental health problems. Sometimes work itself is the cause of them. OP’s DD needs a proper mental health assessment and appropriate support to look for work. She also needs appropriate adjustment and extra help from the jobcentre to find something suitable. You can’t just slot disabled people into whatever work is available and the sooner people realise this the better.

Sorry but you have very little understanding of the effect of mental health issues. People who have insurmountable phobias like this are supported by disability benefits, which are among the hardest benefits to claim, and for which claimants need to present robust medical evidence to support everything they say. And yes, of course it’s acceptable. If you have an overwhelming mental health problem which has a significant impact on your day to day living, then you have a disability. Perhaps stop listening to government rhetoric designed to get the public on board for cuts to benefits which will make the lives of genuinely disabled people much worse, and do some research into the reality - it’s all there online if you care to look and understand.

would you also agree that being stuck in a shitty job you hate is also enough to make someone actually clinically depressed enough to be able to claim benefits?

It can do, yes. It's why I frequently tell people IRL that money isn't everything. Plenty of people would be better off if they had a job they found less stressful, or didn't work for an arsehole boss, or just did something better suited to their personality, rather than staying in an unsuitable job for the wages or the lifestyle it pays for. Many people know little about budgeting and believe they need to earn far more than they actually do, believing in turn that they "can't" leave a job that's making them unwell.

I'm not talking about "self declaring", I'm talking about people being diagnosed, don't know where you've got that from.

Also just because one job makes a person depressed (or developing some other health condition as a result of chronic extreme stress) that doesn't necessarily mean they can't work at all. Not all health conditions are permanent and for some people getting the right job for them or same job in the right company, alongside some time to recover, is all that's needed.

As for the country being buggered, I agree with you there. If more people weren't obsessed with earning money to the exclusion of all else, there'd be a lot less unhappy people and unhealthy people around. Both in terms of the ill health that can be caused to the person doing it and the misery their selfishness (not all are selfish though) causes to others around them. Our government and society promotes working yourself into the ground. That affects the NHS. It affects social care. It means nobody has time to support others informally because they need all their energies to survive their work schedule and what little is left over goes to their DC and spouse. There's is insufficient work/life balance, many people are miserable even if not depressed and society is at each others throats over it with a mentality of perceiving "you've got something I haven't, I want it, it isn't fair". If people were happy with their own lives they'd be a lot less concerned with what others were doing and perceived unfairness. And the world would be a more harmonious place with far less dickheads in it.

@Lemonysnipit

I am amazed that they are still called JOB CENTRE / JOB CENTRE PLUS at all!

Would love to know how the UK compares to other countries now after reading this thread eg Sweden as per a previous poster ...

Thank you. I have helped family and friends when they’ve struggled and I believe everyone should have access to someone who may be able to help as the job centre is not fit for purpose.

if "realising the shitty reality of the benefits system and it's treatment of people (which is enough to make anyone depressed if they're involved with it for long enough IMO)." is enough to make somebody actually clinically unwell enough to not work and be entitled to claim benefits @Alstromeria, would you also agree that being stuck in a shitty job you hate is also enough to make someone actually clinically depressed enough to be able to claim benefits? We're all right royally buggered if that's the case, when millions of people realise they can just self-declare as depressed because actually they've been living with that for years, but just soldiering on.

Either the benefits system should treat everyone equally - anyone who has hade had a mildly bad time and doesn't want to face the daily grind should get benefits enough to live on, OR those who've had a mildly bad time should get up and get on with it.

@IdrisElbow

How I wish they had this for the over 30s, 40s, 50s too!

The King's Trust | Confidence, courses, careers

Probably the BEST username in the World EVER @IdrisElbow !!!

And a lovely post too ... makes me very happy to see people actually wanting to help the OP (@ThisIsInsane) and her daughter.

Perhaps your clients are all genuinely suffering from debilitating MH issues, but if you believe that every single person who claims to be suffering similarly is genuine, then perhaps you're in the wrong profession or living in cloud cuckoo land.

My work doesn't involve MH care or treatment. I rely on reports from psychiatrists and lead MH practitioners, all of whom are MH qualified, for MH info. Almost all the cases that cross my desk have a recent history of acute MH episodes of sufficient severity to require admission, often under section.

I have enough experience to know that conditions like anxiety and depression vary widely in severity, and that the symptoms at the less severe end of that spectrum could well be faked. But I also have enough experience to know that the person staying in bed all day this week could well be the person depressed enough to be suicidal in a couple of weeks time.

Your examples are extreme, and extreme cases exist.

How do you distinguish between somebody who has been through unimaginable trauma, and someone who is a bit down because they've had a bad experience and is now potentially spiralling in self-sabotage? Lots of people are susceptible to MH issues, but recognising and dealing with the early symptoms can prevent a full on crisis for many. Getting out of bed and doing something is a very good start.

I’m not sure why the client stories are on this thread when it’s not applicable to the op’s dd

Yes, I think it is entirely acceptable when someone has a diagnosis of PTSD (previously agoraphobia) arising from having been attacked by a dog in the street, resulting in losing an eye and facial scarring that is so severe (even after plastic surgery) that they get stared at and often mocked by vile scrotes who are too ignorant to know better, and that they are terrified at the thought of leaving their house, let alone the act.

What I don't think is acceptable is that this someone has now been waiting for 6 years for EMDR therapy, which has excellent results with PTSD, and the subsequent CBT and support to get back to some semblance of a normal life. It's especially unacceptable that after waiting years for help in one trust area, they had to start again at the bottom of the waiting list when they had to move to a different trust area.

Yes so where does the op’s dd sit in this? The thread is advice to her. Clients or relations might have their own difficulties but this is about a young adult who was working and could be helped into doing so again.

You are missing the point, the people she's talking about literally CAN'T get outside etc.

Just because you're coping with your MH issues better than someone else is coping with theirs doesn't necessarily mean the other person is lazy or slacking off. In the case of the ones this poster has mentioned, it's obvious that their symptoms are more severe than yours.

People with symptoms this severe aren't coping with their DC "because they have to". They're neglecting their DC who are in turn growing up with their own issues because of that. Or their partner, if they have one, is doing all the childcare and household stuff. Or they're having their DC removed by social services due to their inadequate parenting.

If benefits didn't exist, these people wouldn't "go to work because otherwise they'd not get paid". They'd stay home until they got evicted for not paying rent. They'd starve to death, whether at home (eviction can take ages) or on the streets, because of not having money for food. Or they'd see their inevitable future and take their own lives.

Thinking that mentally unwell people automatically would go to work if they really had to is utter bullshit.

Some might, if they had the more minor end of symptoms, but that doesn't mean it would work out well. In many cases, people's symptoms are only at the minor end because they don't have the stress of working and have all day to do whatever is necessary to manage their condition and stop it worsening. Force those people into work and they go downhill (this does actually happen in current society, because if someone's symptoms become sufficiently minor then they no longer qualify for sickness or disability benefits) until they can no longer function, their lives are falling apart and they're unwell enough to be able to get signed off sick again. Then when they're not working people like you cite their previous work experience as supposed evidence that they could work if they wanted to.

Now I'm not saying OPs DD is this mentally unwell. Personally I suspect in her case she needs some antidepressants because she's been faced with some big life shocks to get her head around - two nasty incidents in public, a nasty incident at work, and now realising the shitty reality of the benefits system and it's treatment of people (which is enough to make anyone depressed if they're involved with it for long enough IMO). She needs some medical help to get through that and also a boot up the backside to start practicing self care instead of wallowing, alongside some education as to what self-care for MH issues actually consists of (because it's possible she hasn't got a clue). She needs some kind of career coaching too, because her job search/application process is seriously lacking if she's applied for 1500 jobs and only got two interviews.

So I'm not saying in OPs DDs case she should claim sickness benefit and never work again. But in many other people's cases that's exactly what does need to happen. That you don't believe it just means you don't really have much understanding of MH issues in general, regardless of whether you've had any yourself.

Exactly, but where and how do we draw the line?

There's a world of difference between "suffering trauma" and having PTSD, just as there's a world of difference between being a bit down and being clinically depressed.

I don't think forcing people to work or "get outside" is in any way beneficial to someone with severe mental illness. Over the years, I've lost 2 clients to suicide following DWP "fit for work" decisions, which is 2 too many imo.