To be glad schools are finally hitting back

I read this article this morning.

As usual, pupils with SEND are being unreasonably affected by draconian behaviour policies, and therefore, leaving.

I supported a family to take a school to a disability discrimination tribunal due to school policies and practices which discriminated against the child due to their SEND. We won! However, the child still left the school and it’s highly likely that nothing had changed at the school, in spite of the ruling by the tribunal panel.

My kids’ school gives ten minute lunchtime detentions for not being properly equipped. Seems fair to me. At the start of the year I bought a big box of stationery and told them where it is. Also encouraged them to always have a couple of spares. If they can’t organise the stuff they need to learn then a 10 minute detention seems fair enough.

This is exactly what I think secondary schools should do. I taught in secondary for 10 years and wasted so much learning time with all the ridiculous checks of uniform. And being forced by a ridiculous policy to give a child a detention at the start of the lesson for no blazer does not set a good learning environment for the next hour, plus they’ve already got a detention so why bother behaving.

I’m all for schools having a uniform policy (it does reduce bullying for children who can’t afford all the names clothing) but I think it should definitely mirror a primary uniform policy, it’s comfier for the kids and cheaper for the parents meaning they’re more likely to comply. Most workplaces are heading for a more smart casual workwear policy anyway, so the old argument of setting children up for the workplace doesn’t really stand anymore.

It's another one of the like pp upthread 'we're entitled to do what we want, act like we want....or we will make you suffer the consequences which if I recall the poster said wad to 'respond with violence and aggression' for being expected to follow school rules?

I hope none of these schools are sending pupils home without following Department for Education guidance around exclusions. Otherwise they themselves would be breaking the rules, which would hardly be setting a good example.

I might be wrong, but most of the draconian rules seem to be a result of the need to keep 30 young people under control at all times.

The obvious answer is that 30 in a class is too many for a teacher to engage.

Instead of telling governments and LEAs that they are being unrealistic, schools look for ways to make the kids easier to manage in large groups.

I've noticed this attitude towards SEN kids too; instead of holding their hands up and saying "We can't meet need," they tell parents and LEAs that they can, fail to uphold the EHCP, and restart the cycle (with less trust between all parties).

It's not a failure to say that the expectations of you are excessive and can't be met. More SLTs should be doing exactly this; change can only happen once a problem is honestly presented.

There are no lazy.disciplines in the classroom.

Depends on the validity of rules.

A lot of 'academy' rules are not only stupid but actually abusive control and don't address issues they cause them. You wouldn't get away with treating adults that way.

There is a reason virtually no one sends their kid to the local academy here and those that get stuck their (short end of the stick of catchment) end up removing their kids usually. The 'school' (more like detainment center) is far too busy enforcing insanely controlling uniform rules to stamp out any ounce of harmless autonomy rather than focusing on the key point of education or the behavior and the rampant out of control bullying (that has result in many police involved assault investigations).

The old comp (despite its low ofsted report many kids seem happy there) and local religious schools (which are excellent, great grades and little to no issues) don't have as many insane rules but overall better ones and are just much better environments with better behaviors overall.

Yet another goady one post wonder op
stirs up the froth and vanishes

What a nonsensical approach. It is not powerful for any culture to have those on whom it is imposed constantly butting up against illogical and stupid rules. All that happens in that situation is they end up despising the idiots who make the rules and people prepared to enforce them.

There can be catastrophic consequences if violent knife toting pupils are not excluded.

We've introduced new rules and we're just starting to see a turnaround in behaviour, calmer classrooms and happier staff, then ofsted told us our suspensions are too high. 🤔

The usual.muddled and incoherent argument in favour of school uniform here, I see.

Just read the previous post and yes our toilets are locked too. It is one problem we haven’t solved. We have a set in each of the two buildings which are in a high traffic area which are open during class time. I’d be interested to hear what others do.

I would be the first one to raise hell and demand the right to wear their PE kit in a heat wave, I don't blindly agree with stupid rules, but there are ways to do it.

Sadly, the parents who think rules don't apply to them and have the most disruptive children don't even argue about sensible or reasonable points. It's such a waste of everybody's time.

i recently moved to a school in a low income area. It’s in NI so there was a bit of a problem with loyalist paramilitaries and the school had a terrible reputation. We got a new principal the year before I arrived. His background is in retail management. He went to uni as a mature student and did his teaching qualifications.

He’s bloody amazing. He has rebranded the school - the name has changed and the uniform has changed. We have a school vision and a “way” or set of aspirations for the kids to live by. They are encouraged to take pride in their own development and surroundings. Everyone of us teaching staff run a club and so we offer before school lunch time and after schools clubs.
He started a PTA and goes to every meeting
and they raise a fortune for us.

He brought in 3 past pupils who have done youth work qualifications and they help is deal with the more challenging kids. The police have a liaison officer who is well know among our kids and every staff member offers the kids the respect they deserve when they live by the “way”.

nothing happened over night, but I can’t believe the change in the last 5 yrs. This year for the first time ever the applications exceeded the number of places we have in Yr 8.

The senior T&D club were helping the tech teacher fit out a campervan in their after school group and they were totally gutted to be finishing for the exams in May.

I really think exclusion is not great but a team effort with a strong leader is the way to go.

We've had years of this and glad we are now done with it all. College has more adult environment and no uniform.

Serious assults ignored - a reluctantly agree uniform change/ or in DS case one that meant requirements but as more expensive option not the norm - go to head of year.

Many of the teachers I think were also fed up but didn't get back up from SLT.

When we moved to the catchment it was a very different school - very nurturing decent results and rising - head was force out few year in - couldn't move and no other school places locally and staff turn over been huge - it's completly different place with serioulsy lower results. It's not what I wanted for them - locked toilet insane rules around eating - huge disruption even in top sets.

Best bit is when they did uniform changes and try and insist uniform was always that - as if we don't have previous copies of the codes .

So like most PP it depends what the rules are and how uniformly they are enforced.

So teachers should just put up with everything?

This.

So the problems caused by the proliferation of pointless rules (including draconian uniform enforcement) are to be solved by ... more rules!

Genius.

Link benefits with kids behaviour points at school
see how quickly things improve!

Maybe stricter, but stricter about more sensible things.

I went to a strict school where bad behaviour was really clamped down on quite quickly. But they also didn’t make it an unpleasant environment for otherwise well behaved children by insisting on bollocks like not being allowed to take your jacket off if it’s hot.

forgetting equipment IS disruptive! To the teacher, and to the other kids around.

It's just excuses after excuses, and it's other children who are forever penalised. My kids are not that bothered, but they are the ones who find it annoying that it's always the same ones messing around.

and my kids are far from being perfect students 😂

I think it depends what issues they are 'hitting back' on, @PretendToBeToastWithMe. Violence against staff or other pupils, bullying, intimidation - yes, the schools should be cracking down hard on issues like this.

Disruptive behaviour in classrooms - there should be firm sanctions in place, alongside the necessary support for pupils with behavioural issues - so that every child can learn properly, and teachers aren't having to prioritise crowd control over actual teaching.

More minor issues - like, for example, uniform niggles - far better, in my view, to have a more flexible uniform policy, so that the pupils have some feeling of control over what they are wearing, and aren't being picked on for minor issues that have no bearing on their ability to learn. I think teachers' work would be easier if they weren't having to police draconian uniform rules - and it would improve the relationship between pupils and teachers, which can't harm the learning environment either!

I don't think they are tackling the right behaviours.

Disrupting a lesson, rudeness to teachers or other students, violence, should absolutely be dealt with swiftly.

However, what I'm seeing is more and more rules around uniform, children being punished for forgetting equipment (another way to label children with ADHD as naughty instead of in need of support!) or things like drinking water in the wrong place.

The focus is all wrong.