To be glad schools are finally hitting back

😂Teachers are not there to be friends with your kids.

Excellent advice, my ADHD is now cured. Maybe you should make an infographic telling people with ADHD to make a list and put a post it note on the door, then it wouldn't exist any more.

Brb, just going to my local secondary school to suggest the teachers tell the bottom set to just be better at maths.

Not if it's about the school enforcing footwear when my dd - Year 7 and pretty shy and quiet, had medical notes from her GP and a foot specialist explaining the need to wear temporary trainers but got constantly harassed by teachers in the corridor and her classes. One teacher tried to coerce her into wearing pumps. The pressure was so much so that she started to refuse to go to school - it took that threat (that I was pulling her from school for medical reasons) for the message to sink in, not to pick on the small kid with the white trainers.
Bloody stupid uniform rules. They just keep getting stricter, and the behaviour seems to be getting worse rather than better.

why do you think the child should be allowed to disrupt the class?
why do you think it's up to others to bring spare to stop being pestered for a pencil?

When will the child actually take responsibility and realise it's up to him to make sure his bag has what he's supposed to have? Everybody else manages? Why should one be so special that again, rules don't apply to him?

Instead of wasting everybody's time, send home . At least they should get the message eventually!

I agree too plus its proven that a child is more obedient when there is a good relationship/friendship established between them and adults.

at some point, you need to take responsibility for yourself.
Write things down, put reminders. Why is it always somebody else's problem?

By secondary, I slept through my alarm. Probably snoozed and went back to sleep - fairly usual for teenagers. Both my parents were already gone for work before I even woke up. Up to me to find a solution.Of course I would have been just as punished for being late than anyone else, and rightly so.

You are forgetful, then put things in place to remember. It's VERY rare that someone remembers absolutely anything and everything, we all use various ways to make sure we do things on time.

I stuck another louder alarm clock on the other side of my room, so I had to physically get up to switch it off. It worked, I was never late. If it hadn't worked, I would have found something else. You can't expect special allowance just because you can't be bothered to get up on time

Quite. I worked in a school and noticed child had a full plate of school dinner (primary school). Took one bite sbd threw it. I asked if he was ok, he said he didn’t like it. I knew he was having a full afternoon of sport afterwards so I said sonething along the lines ‘you’re going to struggle in tbe afternoon without any lunch’. I didn’t force feed him, but next day I was pulled up because he’d told his mother and she complained to the school. Bonkers. He would have been 10 or 11. I quit soon no after.

That’s the ideal @Goldbar I agree.Where it has gone wrong is the sheer size of many Secondary schools now. When there are hundreds of pupils it just becomes crowd control. Then SLT’s impose ridiculous rules on pupils (and often staff as well). This is in the vain hope that they can gain back some control. Vulnerable pupils slip through the cracks. Disruptive and unruly pupils rule the roost. It’s why many children fail to thrive after doing well in smaller Primary schools. Smaller Primary schools are often able to take a more personalised and nurturing approach to children. Parents become disgruntled because the Secondary schools can’t or won’t take this approach and the relationship between schools, parents and pupils breaks down. It’s why people who can afford it privately educate their children.

nothing happened over night, but I can’t believe the change in the last 5 yrs.

School we picked was like that - hugely impoved - we werent from area so didn't know previous reputation. It was a great school.

Then inspections force head and most of the senior staff out - their gripe was bottom pupil while imporving were doing so fast enough a- took two attempts to get a new head after that most of the staff moved on - and the outstanding pastural care which huge sucess was stripped away. Behavior and results crashed.

Since then they've got increasingly nit picky over minor shit and ignored serious concerns.

Mind you DN wnet to our old school - one who were like you can't take balzers off till someone faints but with good results - and had equally shit time - they to had no toilet access - well suppodily there but in reality usually not - and lots of teacher churn and poor class room behavior - at least post covid.

No honey thats not the issue. the issue here is that sending a child home for wearing the wrong uniform or not having a pencil is an excessive punishment. Surely if a teacher wants to continue with the lesson they can allow the child to have a spare pencil from a friend or from the classroom. Its like teacher love punishing for every little thing and I know for a fact some of them find pleasure in doing so

I work with a lot of ex teachers... some are lovely. Some not so: with a focus on "the rules" not the person. I can easily see how they were in school. Oh and they talk down to me, yet we are equals. I guess you can't take that telling behaviour out of some. I reiterate, some are lovely... but fyi I don't need to know day in day out, year in year out, that you used to be a teacher I KNOW.

It's very clear on this thread what the problem is with schools. It's not rules, or teachers or students. It's parents who won't take any responsibility raising entitled kids.

Last week I was called a "fat fucking cunt" by a parent who then proceeded to post a load of abuse about me on social media because I put her little darling in detention for her false nails.

Or just wear.it?

Am all for zero tolerance on behaviour but some of the rules brought in by our local high school are just awful.

• they all have to use the same pen- not great if you are left handed and it now smudges your work
• lining up in full uniform - no coat in torrential rain, cold weather or 30 degree heat.

• silence at all times in corridors and then in some classes are silent and they have to sit and listen- no note taking. Very victorian stance.
• detentions for not looking at teacher the whole time, not putting pen down quick enough ...

Am just not sure how all these crazy rules prepare children for the real world or benefit them. Though I am very much for children having struct behaviour boundaries. Interestingly many of the children who have struggled with the rules are those which behave anyway - but it has created an environment of fear, that they feel they are going to slip up and be punished.

Think hard about whether this is a battle that is even worth fighting. All over the world children are educated successfully without ever having to wear uniform. Just abolish the rule, or at least massively relax it.

@Teachingquestion has not bothered ti clarify and is probably just lurking and writing their slow Newsday article 😂

My kids go to this school and I’ve been on the parents page and seen the Facebook threads.

There are huge numbers of happy but quiet parents, unlike the ones who complain, laughing at some of the stories on the fb threads which are absolute nonsense. Myself included. My kids are taught in quiet calm classrooms because the ‘sweating the small stuff’ does improve low level disruption which is exhausting for staff and children and minimises learning.

My kids are not angels and have had detentions for some of the silly stuff but it’s 15 minutes and we just tell them to follow the rules next time. It’s not rocket science.

I’m all for it!

Organisation and memory are skills that develop at different rates.

If a kid forgets how to do a maths problem, would it help to put them in detention or is it obvious that they just need more help and time to remember that skill? Is it not disruptive when a kid is stuck and needs extra help with a problem?

I went all through school being punished for forgetting things, it didn't make me less forgetful it just ruined my self esteem and caused mental health problems.

These matter. Being able to follow these ‘small’ rules develops the skills and discipline needed to follow these ‘rules’ to survive the real workplace. Young people who are unable to develop these skills will struggle later on and complain about ‘mental health. Nonsense.

Is your OP supposed to be so vague it attracts lots of ideas for a journalist?

Ofsted is going to be assessing schools in part on their adherence to equality laws. I suspect that is going to be really problematic for some academy schools that insist on mindless rigid adherence to rules, especially around uniform.

sending them home is not a proper solution to the issue.

edit read that wrong haha. I thought you meant benefits for children as in rewards.

But you also have a point in some cases

.. prior to edit below.
One of mine school does this. Build 1,000 points or something and you get a Dominos delivered to school for lunch for you and friends to share. Other smaller prizes along the way as well.

I’m not a teacher but DH is and whilst I think he’d sort of agree with you he also says regularly that when his school clamps down on uniform it has a huge overall impact on the school because there’s no little boundaries to test so the bigger ones don’t get pushed.

My locals schools have very strict uniform policies.

But they are also so strict on anti-bullying that normal kids messing around between themselves is not allowed either when it's too physical. Fine, I am not complaining, I get where they come from, and the kids can wait until after school.

The point was that it's not one or the other, uniform or bullying, many schools manage both!