To be glad schools are finally hitting back

As an experienced teacher, I haven't taught in the state system for years because I can't bear being put in a position where I am forced to enforce petty rules that are all about control and nothing to do with education. Schools should not be prisons where children's movements and freedoms are restricted.

Children do not need to wear a uniform to be 'ready to learn.' I teach in a school with no uniform rules whatsoever - the kids can wear whatever they like. We trust them to make sensible and appropriate choices and guess what - they do.

If children forget equipment or books - then we just lend/give them what they need and don't make a big deal out of it. We all forget things sometimes. Why should we punish them for asking them to have too much on their plates? Kids as young as 11 are expected to rush around school from lesson to lesson, going to different classrooms each time, and to different subjects with different equipment requirements. Would an adult remember every little thing each of those 6 teachers had asked them to do/bring to their lesson that day? Probably not. It's normal that they might forget something sometimes and the right response is kindness and understanding rather than shame and punishment.

If children are late, we find out why and deal with the root cause. Very rarely is it children being wilfully disruptive. Most of the time there are issues going on at home or school that need intervention and the lateness is a symptom of something much deeper. Punishing a child for finding it difficult to come to school is nothing but counterproductive.

No child should ever be told no when they ask to use the toilet. That is barbaric.

A lot of the time in these draconian academy schools, children are disruptive because they don't see the point in what they're learning and they have so little control/autonomy over their day-to-day lives. They have to sit in rows and listen and make notes with no choices and no opportunity to move around or chat. If their classrooms were creative, collaborative environments where they could move freely, work on learning projects that they had agency over and understood the purpose of, and had warm and engaging relationships with their teachers, who they saw as allies rather then enemies, then the classroom environment doesn't become a space of combat but one of community, and then you don't need rules to keep kids in line.

I might also add that another reason why so many children are disruptive is because what they learn is utterly pointless and boring, or inaccessible to them. We badly need to shake up the system in this country. A good 50% of children shouldn't be doing GCSEs and A Levels and should be working towards practical, apprenticeship-style qualifications that will lead them to fulfilling work. It's trying to force kids without the interest or intellectual capacity to do formal qualifications in subjects they don't like, don't understand and don't see the point in studying that causes so many issues in school. If the content of what students were learning matched their needs and interests, they wouldn't be disengaged or disruptive.

So many schools have got it so wrong. And unfortunately the majority of communities in which these draconian schools exist are ones with the highest levels of disadvantage, and their approach merely exacerbates existing societal issues in those communities rather than doing anything to improve or enrich those children's lives or future opportunities.

It really depends on what they are being stricter on. Bullying and disruptive behaviour then yes that’s great. If it’s uniform then I don’t support that. I wasted the majority of my secondary school years in isolation due to not wearing a uniform that I didn’t have - whilst kids that were prolific bullies were allowed to stay in class with very little punishments.

Some of the uniform requirements are absolutely ridiculous. And I won't support a detention for them, not when absolute violent shits can abuse other children and get treated with kid gloves.

During the last heatwave dd had to take her blazer in to school.

She didn't have to wear it. But she had to take it in. And the teachers actually wasted time checking children had brought their blazers in to school.

In a heatwave.

Fucking mental academies.

Nobody is suggesting kids shouldn't be dressed "appropriately" but I've never worked anywhere that I had to wait for permission to remove a jacket when it's hot (and anyway most workplaces are kept temperate!) and actually in the parts of London that I live and work the only people who wear full suit and tie are estate agents, and even they're not expected to wear a particular tie or the exact pair of shoes. Actually maybe cabin crew on some airlines might be ALMOST as strict as some of the schools you're defending. Can't think of any other jobs though.

It teaches them that work has rules and they need to be followed, because they’re not the Special Ones.

in most jobs, if you are scatty, forget what you are supposed to take, don't submit work on time, you get sacked. If you turn up at an interview in an inappropriate outfit, you won't get the job. If you dress inappropriately for the environment you are in, first rules have to be added to handbook, then you also get the door.

That's what you are spectacularly missing.

Current uniform standards are out of touch with the majority of workplaces. I'd rather see more practical uniforms using a range of generic items which would be more affordable and accomodate sensory sensitivities. How the finer details on what distinguishes a black leather, rubber soled shoe from a black leather, rubber soled trainer affects learning, I have never worked out and frankly, I'd rather pupils wore practical, weather proof black shoes and boots than boys kicking through dress shoes, and girls shuffling around and destroying their feet in ballet pumps.

Equipment does matter. Many years ago in a deprived town I had a class of 26 who generally didn't want to be there. One day 21 of them had nothing to write with- not even being fussy about particular pens, I just wanted them to be able to write. Anything I lent to them was taken, broken or lobbed out of the window. Every single week I bought tens of pens that didn't last the week.
Many years later, my Friday p5 class featured a lovely ND lad who I'd previously taught and knew the chances of him having a pen by that stage of the week was very low. I bought him a nice pen that he was instructed to keep clipped on to his book and he managed to keep it all year. I was happy to do that knowing it was mutually appreciated. He coped with the simple rule of that pen having a particular place to be put rather than transitions of transporting it.

Schools need clear rules and order, but they need to be centered on how they enhance learning, not being punitive and exclusionary for the sake of image.

Yes 100% agree. My DS’ have left school now but some of the rules were absolutely ridiculous, re uniform and kit. DS2 got a dentention once for a uniform “violation” when school contacted me was very surprised as he attended school that day with everything he had been wearing for months. It was his shoes apparently, he was wearing sketchers shoes NOT trainers, I made sure they were all black as per the uniform policy. But they weren’t a “formal” shoe. He had hurt his Achilles tendon and the Skechers were more comfortable, I was then told to get a letter from the GP, I said no I won’t be doing that, my GP has better thing to do with his time. I wanted to say he’s severely dyslexic, hates school, but turns up and does his best, what more do you want him to do, because things like this do not help. I didn’t agree with them having to wear shirt, tie & blazer on very hot days either. They were unable to remove blazers unless class teacher gave permission. Also got in trouble for not having a green biro, these aren’t easy to buy either.

Where l live they have stopped the children bringing phones into school .
I fully support it

There is some good news for this mum. Children don't need to drink water/squash constantly all day to avoid getting dehydrated. They can just drink before school, lunch time, and at 4.00pm and they'll be fine (unless it's exceptionally hot weather). So perhaps either the daughter is exaggerating about getting dehydrated or the mum really is one of those awkward parents.

The school DS is going to to next year (hopefully - we're a bit touch and go on distance) is going the opposite way. They just stopped detention entirely and have made a policy decision to stop fussing over uniform infractions. It's rated outstanding and has some of the best improvement stats in the UK. It's non-selective but in a very well to do area.

I expect this will start to be the norm sadly. That kids in poorer areas are treated like little criminals and those in rich areas will be trusted to have some more freedom.

I see no reason ever for the crack down on tiny uniform issues at all to be honest. What a waste of energy.

Middle school.

I mean, in secondary school I vividly remember we were so poor (my mum's choices led to it) that I didn't even have a bag most of the time. I didn't have pens, pencils, anything. I turned up and had to borrow pens constantly. I understand the rules are there for a reason but I also think there should be some leniency when children can't control their circumstances if that makes sense.

Wow, is that primary or secondary school??

Yep, sure, it was definitely because I didn't care or try to develop strategies. I just really enjoyed being in trouble every day until my self-esteem was so low I was suicidal. Such fun.

It's like those people with Diabetes, going around insisting on being given medicine instead of taking accountability for making their own insulin. Everyone else manages! They are perfectly capable of making other hormones that can't be produced synthetically, how convenient.

It's a real shame there's no cure for stupid or ableist because you definitely need one.

Probably a lot better if they'd spent their childhoods in supportive and nurturing schools where they were helped and scaffolded to meet expectations and to achieve their potential.

Worth remembering that very few private schools have a punitive "zero tolerance" approach. Apparently it's not something that well-off and privileged parents feel will benefit their kids.

In real life if you need the loo, then in most jobs you can go - and if you can't, you usually know that's part of a job.

In real life you can wear weather appropriate clothing. In most jobs if you are hot you take off a layer, if it's raining you use a coat.

In most jobs if you lose a pen, you get a spare from a cupboard or borrow a colleagues. Its not a big drama.

I used to work in one of the few jobs where I had to time toilet trips and had no control over my clothing, however hot it got. I knew that when I signed up for the job. If I couldn't handle it, I wouldn't have taken the job.

Kids don't get a choice over any of this.

I wonder how some of these children will fare in the world. Work has rules, society has rules, families and friendships have rules; but everyone can ignore the rules in school.
Give me strength 😥.

I am not talking about "cure" but you have to take responsibility and find solutions to fix your OWN problems.

It's easy to waste time finding excuses. Instead of blaming "the school" and expect special treatment, do what every body else is doing, and find solutions for yourself.

It's funny how ADHD for some people only impact SOME impact of their lives, not the ones they actually care about. why is that?

(I do have ADHD btw... It really annoys me when it's used as an excuse for laziness)

I don't know why people say that.

have you BEEN to other school in other systems? English schools are the least
formal ever!
People assume that it's the other way round because kids wear a uniform, but it's more a free for all than anywhere else.

That's the English way. Rules rules, gradgrindian rules. Compared to schools in Europe/Africa, and much of the English school system looks like the opening scene of Orwell's 1984. And that's how they prepare you for an adult life filled with petty bureaucracy, run by petty dictators. Red tape ties the nation together!

I think all it does is punish kids for the fact schools are overcrowded and underfunded.
Lots of children find uniform rules difficult because of sensory issues.
Uniforms were much less strict when I was at school.

Schools ask teachers to use a behaviour policy, so everyone has to be consistent. It'll be a whole school policy. The issue with false nails is a health and safety one, which parent will be fully aware of but authorises the child to get her 'holiday nails' anyway

So you seriously don't think teachers should be aiming to have good relationships with their students? Why? So you dislike kids? See them all as a bunch of potential criminals?

ND kids are often pretty good at following rules. What is needed is basic manners and good attitude which should be taught at home, but often has to be taught at school