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To be glad schools are finally hitting back

463 replies

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 12:05

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

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BeachLife2 · 22/07/2025 17:52

Many secondaries in the U.K. are out of control with terrible behaviour and parents who think their little darlings can do no wrong.

Schools need to have zero tolerance policies and be empowered to remove DC who are harming the safety and learning of other students.

Whereishenow · 22/07/2025 17:51

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:49

Exactly. Zero tolerance poor behaviour.
Here to learn.
Zero tolerance bullying

Parents supportive of rules

Yup I'd support those rules. Always.

MrsSunshine2b · 22/07/2025 17:50

randomlemonsheep · 22/07/2025 17:32

provided you get the job in the first place.

If you can't be bothered to turn up on time at the interview, don't send your CV, don't submit your application form and/or in the requested format, you won't have the job.

Reasonable adjustment doesn't mean holding someone's hands, or it means they can't do the job in the first place anyway.

Again, people need to take responsibility for themselves. If you can keep to deadlines, you don't belong in the job. If you can't be bothered to remember your passport, you won't be allowed on a plane. If you can't remember your train ticket, you will get fined.

Refusing to teach responsibility to children is not doing them any favour whatsoever. Most kids will be delighted if we tell them that reasonable adjustments mean they can all stroll at school at 10:30am because they can't cope with an early start 😂

Well I agree, that's why I'm advocating teaching them rather than trying to punish them into being better at something. You're the one who is against teaching them and thinks children are choosing to be ND because they don't care enough about school.

The ADHD tax is well known and the fact that it regularly costs me money has not yet magically erased my ADHD! Funny that, maybe I don't care about money either.

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:49

Whereishenow · 22/07/2025 17:46

Sure. But the rules should not be over the top or pointless.

Exactly. Zero tolerance poor behaviour.
Here to learn.
Zero tolerance bullying

Parents supportive of rules

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LlynTegid · 22/07/2025 17:49

Agree 100% about not accepting any racism, sexual comments to teaching and other staff, and disruptive behaviour having consequences.

Parents need to face consequences as well, preferably ones that hurt them or even their pride.

Doone22 · 22/07/2025 17:47

I agree only so far as proper discipline is maintained, detention for lateness, rudeness, misbehaving etc is fine but isolation and detention for minor issues like forgetting a pencil or wrong colour socks is pathetic. If you want them to act like grown ups you need to start treating them as such. I doubt a teacher or anyone else would tolerate being told they can't take a blazer off when it's warm or told they can't use the toilet or get any water when thirsty. It's not a prison camp.

Whereishenow · 22/07/2025 17:46

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:40

I think at some point we have to understand that we have to give kids rules . The law is a blunt tool, training kids to expect exceptional ism from rules is not preparing them for life at all

Sure. But the rules should not be over the top or pointless.

JamieCannister · 22/07/2025 17:44

Nasrine · 22/07/2025 12:14

The biggest risk factor for really terrible outcomes for children - becoming the victims and perpetrators of serious crime - is being excluded from school.

If you want to celebrate school exclusion, fine. But people should be aware that when it's happening on a large scale, there may well be social consequences.

The biggest risk factor for hundreds of slightly less happy kids, receving slightly less good education, and dozens getting bullied really badly, is the future victims and perpetrators of serious crime not being excluded by woke schools who don't like discipline.

Neemie · 22/07/2025 17:44

Nasrine · 22/07/2025 12:14

The biggest risk factor for really terrible outcomes for children - becoming the victims and perpetrators of serious crime - is being excluded from school.

If you want to celebrate school exclusion, fine. But people should be aware that when it's happening on a large scale, there may well be social consequences.

The teenagers that have been permanently excluded from the schools that I have worked in were excluded for rape, repeated violence and threatening others with a knife. It is pretty obvious that it is their behaviour and the causes of that behaviour that is the risk factor, not the exclusion itself.

Exclusions are an indicator of a young person’s life going wrong, rather than a cause.

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:40

I think at some point we have to understand that we have to give kids rules . The law is a blunt tool, training kids to expect exceptional ism from rules is not preparing them for life at all

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Whereishenow · 22/07/2025 17:38

"People saying "oh you can go to the toilet at work and get a pen out of the stationery cupboard" - all true you can, what you can't do is call your manager a fucking n**r, or say, why aren't you back home in the kitchen looking after a man. Which my teens have heard other pupils say to their teachers. So it works both ways."

Both of the latter examples are absolutely things that schools need to be focusing on. Not the forgotten pen or wrong colour kitbag. That's the problem.

hopspot · 22/07/2025 17:38

Voerendaal · 22/07/2025 17:22

Yes of course all 1500 children forget their pencils at the same time on the same day! It really is time that schools gave their heads a serious wobble. Strict uniform rules are ridiculous in 2025. No other European country has uniforms and I think they do alright. Children with behavioural problems exist with or without strict rules and sanctions. The only thing these rules do is damage kids with neuro diversity or anxiety or other special needs.

So who should provide the pencils?

Cardtrouble · 22/07/2025 17:38

My child has been excluded from education for years. School won't implement their ehcp, won't even discuss it, they can't meet need and won't allow them to attend. We are stuck in tribunal limbo. The school then have the cheek to call 111 stating I'm denying them access to the child, completely disregarding their own safeguarding policy.
Complete power trip from the school, who can't stick to any rules and processes themselves, i wouldn't mind but they designed the rules.
If kids are seeing adults disregard rules and not taking accountability, then where is the incentive for the kids to follow any rules?

TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 22/07/2025 17:38

Snorlaxo · 22/07/2025 12:19

Start of term punishments in the media are usually for uniform violations which are ridiculous, petty and archaic. Many countries don’t have uniforms and their behaviour is not worse than in the UK.

I can’t imagine that make schools hell like the persistent bullies and violent kids being sent home because their right to an education is seen as more important than the rest of the class and staff being safe.

Exactly the bullies and violent kids should be sent home and all the better if they end up in prison also. After seeing an online video of boys kicking a boy in school uniforms and them 10 and he lying on the ground alone, don't have any understanding left for parents like you.....who brag about that their violent child has a right to education. I hope the police gets involved with you all, social services also

Obviously my post is not addressee to you whose quote I fetched but the ones who parent violent children

WhenYouSayNothingAtAll · 22/07/2025 17:34

Clear , sensible and reasonable rules that are actually enforced? Sure! I’m all for it.

Petty rules like the colour of socks you can’t even see? Meh, can’t get too excited about that.

randomlemonsheep · 22/07/2025 17:32

MrsSunshine2b · 22/07/2025 16:44

Yes, and if you can't read, you'll have a tough time getting a job as well, but if a child struggles to learn to read, we don't punish them. We spend extra time helping them learn to read.

And actually, employers are obliged to make reasonable adjustments for staff with disabilities or ND. For example, if you work from home, you can't forget equipment. If you have an assigned desk and all your equipment stays on that desk, you are less likely to lose it. If you struggle to remember deadlines, your manager might be obliged to provide you with reminders. It's a legal duty.

provided you get the job in the first place.

If you can't be bothered to turn up on time at the interview, don't send your CV, don't submit your application form and/or in the requested format, you won't have the job.

Reasonable adjustment doesn't mean holding someone's hands, or it means they can't do the job in the first place anyway.

Again, people need to take responsibility for themselves. If you can keep to deadlines, you don't belong in the job. If you can't be bothered to remember your passport, you won't be allowed on a plane. If you can't remember your train ticket, you will get fined.

Refusing to teach responsibility to children is not doing them any favour whatsoever. Most kids will be delighted if we tell them that reasonable adjustments mean they can all stroll at school at 10:30am because they can't cope with an early start 😂

ByGreyWriter · 22/07/2025 17:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Witchtower · 22/07/2025 17:31

randomlemonsheep · 22/07/2025 14:54

I am not talking about "cure" but you have to take responsibility and find solutions to fix your OWN problems.

It's easy to waste time finding excuses. Instead of blaming "the school" and expect special treatment, do what every body else is doing, and find solutions for yourself.

It's funny how ADHD for some people only impact SOME impact of their lives, not the ones they actually care about. why is that?

(I do have ADHD btw... It really annoys me when it's used as an excuse for laziness)

Edited

Please be mindful that not everyone is able to find strategies that suit them.
It’s great that you have but not everyone is able to do that. Not everyone’s ADHD is the same and you cannot compare your adult brain to a child’s.
I am almost 40 and I still slip up a lot, even with strategies in place. I usually have to laugh otherwise I’ll be constantly disappointed in myself.

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:30

I don't think parents realise how scary a classroom can be for a quieter or nervous student if behaviour can't be tackled and the loud ones dominate/have to be persuaded to do the basics

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Kidsgotothatschool · 22/07/2025 17:28

Exactly that @FrenchFancie, I have family and friends working in schools in my local area and where rules are more lax, so is the behaviour in the classrooms and this does impact on the learning, I have heard horror stories but I genuinely don’t think many parents realise the damage it causes or what goes on in the classrooms. My children go to a school with strict rules and they tell me their learning is rarely disrupted, classrooms are quiet and calm. I’d rather that, than complain about whether they have to bring their blazers in, in hot weather or whether there really is a need for a green pen.

frozendaisy · 22/07/2025 17:28

The mass exclusions are the backlash for how things have swung too much the wrong way. From what we have experienced, more kids need removing not fewer.

Teachers are not getting enough support from parents that, yes maybe, chucking out a bunch of trouble makers, ones who think the rules don't apply to them, ones who cannot be in that classroom provided become disruptive, then yes, go this isn't the place for you. And how many of their parents are concerned about their child or just pissed off that they now have to deal with them again? I know parents of less well behaved pupils, and they are glad when the summer holidays are over "as they need a break" so they know their child is disobedient. They can't hack it but think a teacher with 25 others should whilst getting them to attempt some trigonometry. Come on you know if your child is a nuisance and are just happy they are not your problem from 8-3.

People saying "oh you can go to the toilet at work and get a pen out of the stationery cupboard" - all true you can, what you can't do is call your manager a fucking n**r, or say, why aren't you back home in the kitchen looking after a man. Which my teens have heard other pupils say to their teachers. So it works both ways.

Confuuzed · 22/07/2025 17:23

EnidSpyton · 22/07/2025 16:31

As an experienced teacher, I haven't taught in the state system for years because I can't bear being put in a position where I am forced to enforce petty rules that are all about control and nothing to do with education. Schools should not be prisons where children's movements and freedoms are restricted.

Children do not need to wear a uniform to be 'ready to learn.' I teach in a school with no uniform rules whatsoever - the kids can wear whatever they like. We trust them to make sensible and appropriate choices and guess what - they do.

If children forget equipment or books - then we just lend/give them what they need and don't make a big deal out of it. We all forget things sometimes. Why should we punish them for asking them to have too much on their plates? Kids as young as 11 are expected to rush around school from lesson to lesson, going to different classrooms each time, and to different subjects with different equipment requirements. Would an adult remember every little thing each of those 6 teachers had asked them to do/bring to their lesson that day? Probably not. It's normal that they might forget something sometimes and the right response is kindness and understanding rather than shame and punishment.

If children are late, we find out why and deal with the root cause. Very rarely is it children being wilfully disruptive. Most of the time there are issues going on at home or school that need intervention and the lateness is a symptom of something much deeper. Punishing a child for finding it difficult to come to school is nothing but counterproductive.

No child should ever be told no when they ask to use the toilet. That is barbaric.

A lot of the time in these draconian academy schools, children are disruptive because they don't see the point in what they're learning and they have so little control/autonomy over their day-to-day lives. They have to sit in rows and listen and make notes with no choices and no opportunity to move around or chat. If their classrooms were creative, collaborative environments where they could move freely, work on learning projects that they had agency over and understood the purpose of, and had warm and engaging relationships with their teachers, who they saw as allies rather then enemies, then the classroom environment doesn't become a space of combat but one of community, and then you don't need rules to keep kids in line.

I might also add that another reason why so many children are disruptive is because what they learn is utterly pointless and boring, or inaccessible to them. We badly need to shake up the system in this country. A good 50% of children shouldn't be doing GCSEs and A Levels and should be working towards practical, apprenticeship-style qualifications that will lead them to fulfilling work. It's trying to force kids without the interest or intellectual capacity to do formal qualifications in subjects they don't like, don't understand and don't see the point in studying that causes so many issues in school. If the content of what students were learning matched their needs and interests, they wouldn't be disengaged or disruptive.

So many schools have got it so wrong. And unfortunately the majority of communities in which these draconian schools exist are ones with the highest levels of disadvantage, and their approach merely exacerbates existing societal issues in those communities rather than doing anything to improve or enrich those children's lives or future opportunities.

100%.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 22/07/2025 17:23

More vulnerable DC getting ostracised.

I agree, behaviour needs to be addressed, but sending potentially valuable students home isn't the answer.

Voerendaal · 22/07/2025 17:22

Postre · 22/07/2025 12:41

And who do you think should provide the 1500 spare pencils that might be needed in a given day? Bet none of those kids forget to take their smartphone.

Yes of course all 1500 children forget their pencils at the same time on the same day! It really is time that schools gave their heads a serious wobble. Strict uniform rules are ridiculous in 2025. No other European country has uniforms and I think they do alright. Children with behavioural problems exist with or without strict rules and sanctions. The only thing these rules do is damage kids with neuro diversity or anxiety or other special needs.

Teachingquestion · 22/07/2025 17:21

FrenchFancie · 22/07/2025 17:17

One of the local senior schools has an issue with skirt length - the girls roll them up so short it’s unreal - I’ve certainly seen arse cheeks when driving past some of them, and yes, that’s a safeguarding concern when younger teenagers don’t know or appreciate the dangers that exist. I wish the world was different, and they could wear whatever, but there you go.

i’ve been into a couple of senior schools recently and was surprised by the huge difference in culture and behaviour. School A was very hot on behaviour, not tolerating even minor slip
ups. This lead to an atmosphere of calm in the classroom and learning happened.

School B was more relaxed, but some of the kids went unchallenged - so for example a year 7 walked in late to a science lesson, yelled ‘I fucking hate science’ put his head down on the desk and refused to work. The teacher did nothing and when I asked her after the lesson, she told me that student had form for smashing up her lab and she didn’t have any more budget to replace broken things, so she just ignores him.

i can’t help but think that school As approach is better for the majority of kids, and the teachers.

Yep school B is us !

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