Summer holidays should be longer

Come to NI. 9 weeks and free grammar school system.

As far as I understand it, children can come and go as they want (which older children are more likely to do - turn up for the free lunch and a bit of a play, then go do their own thing) but also parents can tell the supervisors that their child isn't allowed to leave independently or that they have to leave at a certain time, and give their contact info to the supervisors but its not thing that you register as such.

Yeah its very different, and was a big shock to me when I first got here so I understand how it seems to outsiders but it works, its not ideal, but better than being stuck inside school during the best part of summer.

@Natsku how do the supervised playgrounds work though? Does a child have to be registered to go? Do they have to be signed in and out - or can they literally just turn up and play but then if they get bored or want to go and do something else - can they just leave?

The playground thing is really good, its completely free too so zero barriers. If the UK had that I bet everyone would be in favour of longer summer holidays.

@Natsku I think having that different way of life - where children of 7 upwards - can be left home alone is what really makes the difference about the attitude towards how long the summer holidays should be.
The UK seems terrified of children being able to look after themselves, playing out, having a 12 year old babysitter etc.
It's sad really.

@Natsku the playground model sounds brilliant, but rural care seems a bit hit and miss to be honest.

I grew up in the UK so I'm used to 6 weeks, but now that seems miniscule to me - the first 6 weeks of this holiday absolutely flew by and already summer feels like its ending too quickly.

Children take care of themselves from age 7? I’m not saying that doesn’t happen in the U.K. too sometimes but I certainly wouldn’t be happy with that. Very different cultures I think. Fascinating

This is in the parts of the country outside of the biggest cities though. In the main cities they have supervised playgrounds so children can just go there in the morning, play all day, and have lunch there and go home when their parents get home. Its like two different worlds within the same country. The supervised playground model is absolutely ideal and I wish they had it everywhere.

I think so much of it is cultural and what we are used to @natsku. You see 10 weeks as "a proper break" as I'm assuming that is what you've always had. We see six weeks as a "proper break". I certainly think it has given my DC adequate time to decompress, and I don't know what criteria I would really use to assess other than the seem relaxed and happy. And my DCs would have been horrified about the lack of holiday the rest of the year as they expect a break every 6-7 weeks - they always seem very ready for it, but that might be just as they are geared up to it.

Working from home is getting more common, something like 35% wfh and I expect many of those will work from their summer cottages in the holidays so the children can play there, but the rest are working at their workplaces and children take care of themselves. This is from 1st grade upwards as the summer before 1st grade is the last summer children can go to nursery for care, so 7/8 years old. But children are raised differently here to prepare them for this - they grow up a lot during 1st grade and a lot will be home alone before and after school so get practice before the summer.

@Natsku The children who play out with friends while their parents work - do the parents generally work from home then or are children being left to their own devices while parents go out to work all day? From what age?

Having worked in schools for 30 years, i don't think a longer summer holiday is beneficial, for a variety of reasons. Adding days onto half terms would work better.

Parents will take their leave in the summer, a month is the normal amount, and then children will be home alone (unless local retired grandparents), or with siblings, but some might be able to limit that time by sending to summer camp for a week or so, there are some camps that have reduced prices for parents with low incomes but that's still only going to cover a week.

10 weeks at once is a proper break, with 6 weeks you barely get time to settle in and relax. We don't have Easter holidays or a 3rd half term though, which is how it evens out, but with the long weekend for Easter and the various public holidays that happen in the spring and with the summer holidays starting beginning of June, the Easter holiday isn't really needed (though a couple more days would be nice), nor a 3rd half term. Its generally considered to be important here to have a long break from school in the summer, when the weather and nature is at its best.
There is a right to more flexibility in work (not sure how it works as I haven't exercised that right, perhaps reduced hours) if you have children under 10 but in reality, if there are no local grandparents, children will spend part of the summer just playing out with friends while their parents work.

Of course there will always be children that fall under the radar (or recently, disappear completely - one family took their children out of foster care and went on the run, but that is so rare that its massive news here) and scandals from overloaded caseworkers missing red flags or not investigating properly, nowhere has a perfect system, but in my experience social services are pretty proactive here, and respond quickly to reports and offer a lot of help. Children are able to seek help themselves too via various helplines. And there are usually youth workers in every town that children can talk to. And as there's a lot of work within schools to help children (each school has a psychologist assigned for instance and children have the right to get an appointment with them within a short time frame, I think a week, and school social workers and counsellors) its easier to pinpoint the children who might be more at risk during the holidays. And with all children getting yearly health check ups at school (and more frequently under school age), less children will slip under the radar in general because warning signs can be spotted more easily.

@Natsku so what happens in the holidays?
Do parents take (unpaid or paid) leave?
Do children left home alone with the eldest child in charge?

@Natsku apologies if I'm wrong, but taking a wild guess from your user name and the country description are you talking about Finland? If so it only has about one more week of holiday overall than the UK, so you have less throughout the year - so surely that is a negative?
And you say "We have longer holidays because children need a proper break, even if its difficult for parents, because sometimes we should go with what's best for children rather than adults" - what actual evidence is there about what is best for children in terms of timing and length of holidays based on outcomes like development, mental health, education etc. We can talk about what we think is best for our children, but there is likely to be huge variety.
And how in reality do parents manage in your country given they work and there is no childcare? Are employers more flexible?

And are you telling me that in your country no children "fall under the radar" of social services? I know those in the nordic countries are much more pro-active and effective in regards to social care, but children remain at risk in all countries.

But why is 6 weeks not a proper break? That is a long time to play outside, rest and relax isn’t it?

In my country we have longer summer holidays but stay at home parents are rare, its not a hot country (though the last two weeks have been sweltering, but that's climate change for you), and in most parts of the country there is no summer childcare provision for school age children, let alone cheap provision. We have longer holidays because children need a proper break, even if its difficult for parents, because sometimes we should go with what's best for children rather than adults. For children at risk of neglect, we have social services and a low threshold for intervention (primarily in the form of support within the family).

@Postre said "It means you've already done all of the work for your salary by working your 190 pupils facing days and 5 INSET, before having the summer off. What they pay you in August has already been earned now!"

You know that's exactly how it works outside of education too? If you're saying it's unpaid because we've already worked our contracted hours, than nobody who works get paid for holiday.

Outside of education if you haven't worked what you are contracted to, you won't get your holiday. Holiday is always earnt before you get it, it's simple. It doesn't mean it's unpaid, it's earnt.

My DH has just started a new job. He is entitled to 20 days off per company year. Starting more than half way through the year so he is entitled to less than 10 days and only gets that entitlement as he earns it, fair enough. My colleague started teaching at our school at the beginning of February and obviously didn't complete 190 pupil facing days and 5 inset days before the summer. She has a full time contract so was paid during the February half term, Easter break and May half term, do you think she'll receive her pay during August or no because according to you she hasn't earnt it?

@MrsHamlet I live in the real world

Realistically no holiday pattern or amount will suit everyone. Longer summer holidays may suit some teachers and children - others children will lose learning or suffer other inequities, and working parents, particularly those in low income, inflexible jobs will struggle. And as we have around the average amount of holidays overall compared to most European countries increasing summer holidays would probably reduce other holidays which based on the number of teacher posts saying they are "on their knees" by half term wouldn't work well either - and my DC certainly needed a break by half term.
I think if any change were to take place it would be worth considering the Scottish system, which brings forward the summer holiday while fixing the Easter break to early April. This means summer holiday is more likely to coincide with the warmer weather. It would obviously mean bringing the exam season forward but there is still time for marking.

You know that's exactly how it works outside of education too? If you're saying it's unpaid because we've already worked our contracted hours, than nobody who works get paid for holiday.

Outside of education if you haven't worked what you are contracted to, you won't get your holiday. Holiday is always earnt before you get it, it's simple. It doesn't mean it's unpaid, it's earnt.

My DH has just started a new job. He is entitled to 20 days off per company year. Starting more than half way through the year so he is entitled to less than 10 days and only gets that entitlement as he earns it, fair enough. My colleague started teaching at our school at the beginning of February and obviously didn't complete 190 pupil facing days and 5 inset days before the summer. She has a full time contract so was paid during the February half term, Easter break and May half term, do you think she'll receive her pay during August or no because according to you she hasn't earnt it?

It bothers me that people don't understand their own pay and conditions.

You can disagree all you like, you're still wrong