To ask for some concrete examples of ways in which the world is ‘designed for NT people’?

Much of what you describe there is basic universal human behaviour though, thats why we know if someone isnt able to process information or respond to the social norms, because they do it differently.

Of course much of the world is functioning with social communication, non verbal communication, we are animals, this is how we communicate. Its not about how a world is built or not built.

Ah the classic response.

I probably wont make a lot of sense as Im just musing but given that there is nothing unusual, or wrong in fact, with the world or society or communities being designed around the usual social norms/habits/behaviours of the majority, you would expect, IF it is true that NT people make up the majority, that the systems and behaviours around us are formed by and form the 'design of the world'.

That said, some of the modern world in my view, very technologically advanced, isolated, remote, distant, automatic etc etc, is often designed by people who are more likely to be ND, therefore the very systems that we all now work with and are led by and control us to some degree are likely to have a huge part of them influenced by the way that someone on the spectrum thinks and sees the world.

There is also another anomaly which perhaps is that those who are NT are not the majority, in which case the world is not designed for NT vs ND, it just is a hotchpotch of systems and behaviours at any one time. This will be borne out in years to come in my view in that conditions like ND dont have a diagnosis criteria cast in stone, its changed over the years and wil change again. So the way the condition is seen is a socially perceived and designed thing in and of itself.

Aside from eye contact and performing emotional resources "correctly", I actually think these examples highlight that society isn't "designed for" anyone - neurotypical/ alltistic or neurodiverse/ specifically autistic. I'm not saying that to be dismissive of neurodiversity but rather the opposite - a lot of changes would improve society and specific environments for everyone.

Some things are fairly easily achievable (personally as an ex secondary school teacher currently working with teenagers and young adults with learning disabilities I think school uniform doesn't serve any of the purposes people claim it does. My own children went through a non uniform system - two right the way to finishing school and one has two years to go, and we experienced precisely none of the problems people swear would occur if uniform was scrapped).

For the most part an autism friendly classroom benefits every child.

Other things however might be wonderful for everyone but are financially or logistically pipe dreams - much longer GP appointments in a system where it's already almost impossible to get an appointment in some areas, for example. I have ADHD and would love a flexible working model for myself, to work intensely and then take long stretches to recover as is my natural pattern - but my job can't be done that way as I have to be there when my students are! Additionally as I've chosen to have my own children my schedule has to work for them too.

None of us are islands and this can mean conflicts of needs and financial and logistical realities prevent things quite working for anyone.

It cannot be as there is no typical brain. People without certain conditions are not clones so there is no typical.

Everyone is ND.

I would hope social services do not expect ND persons to react / behave in a NT manner. As a social worker (of over 20 years now) we recieve huge amounts of training around ND and specifically we MUST take any ND into consideration when working with families and must tailor our approach and support so that it is fully accessible for those who are not NT. It really is a key part of our role and any support, assessments and so on my be through the lens of ND, if that is the case. That means making adjustments, communicating in a way that is understandable and supports a person to process information etc. I am hyperaware of ND as a SW and so are my colleagues. I believe wholeheartedly that the world in NOT designed for those who are ND but there are agencies that are trying to make the world and services more accessible. For context, I am ND, as are my children and neither could manage in mainstream. In my experience, the school system is the worst - a one size fits all and not fit for purpose (for ND students). Only my opinion on course!

What an excellent response.

If you are a potentially autistic woman, this may be helpful reading:

Https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/autistic-women/

Are you the only member of this chat forum though?

Or did you mistakenly think the OP addressed this thread to you personally?

I meant to say that that answer is a lightly edited version of what I got from ChatGPT - I think they are all good examples.

Another is that for some autistic people, reading people's emotions can be very difficult, leading to mutual misunderstandings. I have a ND child, and this is one of their biggest struggles at the moment.

I think "I'm not here to educate you" is one of the worst responses I see to people reaching out to try and understand

They don't want to read what "the books" say, they want to have experiences and facts from those living this daily.

They're reaching out to understand and for help and they get shot down.

Much more likely to push someone away from understanding than towards "doing their research"

Job interviews often rely on being able to present your knowledge and experience in a particular way (STAR type answers). If your brain doesn’t work that way, or you need time to process questions then interviews become inaccessible.

New school buildings where I am are built to an open plan format, meaning noise leaks from one teaching pod to another making it very difficult to focus for ND kids.

To come up with your own examples you can think about anyone you know who is ND, think of a specific thing they struggle with and think how this works in the world.

For example, someone who struggles with noise might struggle with music playing in shops/restaurants. They might struggle with open plan living, large class/nursery sizes, open plan offices, excessive announcements at stations, volume level at the cinema etc. It's clear to see that the background noise level of life is set to NT. Lots of these issues might also impact people with hearing impairment of course as the world is also designed for able bodied people.

Do your own reading I'm not here to educate you I'm tired of doing the emotional labour

All that bullshit comes from angry young American key board warriors..
It was a very common response during the black lives matter "movement"
Cute to see it tried here and very reasonably shot down...

Oh and "if you don't make eye contact then you're hiding something" despite being uncomfortable with eye contact

Transitions are difficult. Your brain prefers consistency.

Now imagine a typical secondary school. Tutor time, lesson 1, lesson 2, break time, lesson 3, lunch time, lesson 4, lesson 5.
Each of those activities take place in a different location, with a different set of peers and a different teacher in charge.

Each day, the timetable is different, for either a week or a fortnight.

Every so often, the location or teacher changes with no advance notice. Or the whole day is different - sports day or a trip somewhere.

You find it really difficult but everyone around you is fine, you don't understand why. It's really tiring every day and you can't wait to get home. But when you do, there's school work to do that didn't fit into the school day. You don't want to do work at home, home is your relaxing space. You get in trouble for not doing work.

That's without even factoring in sensory difficulties, social and communication difficulties, executive functioning difficulties.

Somethings I can think of/effect me:

Shops/cinemas/theatres/the world being loud, noisy places with lots of music and beeps and flashing lights
Places not clearly advertising things like opening times/policies which make it difficult for those with anxiety
"Accessible" hours being limited and often full
A lack of patience from other people when someone needs take a little longer or asks another question or is non verbal or is "too" direct
Places making sudden changes without adjustment periods or notice

Social services, GPs, police etc assume ND people will react in a specific NT way and behave in a specific NT way when specific issues come up. When ND people don't, they label them as uncooperative when actually the ND person doesn't know that "we need your consent to do X" is a social cue that means "if you don't consent everything gets worse and we will treat you as hostile and/or you won't get what you need from this interaction".
There are many similar examples of things like this that I've seen, I see it often when ND posters post for help with Social Services or the police and responses have to spell out to them why it didn't go well, but if the services in question were more ND friendly then the issue wouldn't have come up.

One example is the education system: it’s designed primarily for children who can sit in large groups at desks and maintain attention on tasks for at least an hour at a time , even when topics aren’t particularly interesting to them. That is not easy for anyone of course, but particularly disadvantages children with Autism, ADHD and Dyslexia. . In the workplace , being a ‘team player’, being on time, being organised and knowing how to network all help people to get promoted. Again, not always easy for ND people. Just a couple of examples off the top of my head..

I dont know what neurodivergent conditions you specificslly mean.

But one example would be if you have sensory processing disorder you could find uniform difficult to wear. So a world requiring uniform is not built for you.

A lot of 'the world' revolves around social communication so if you have a social communication disorder you might not fully understand what is said or how to respond. This can have real life consequences like delays is medication. My son had shingles misdiagnosed as he couldn't understand the questions or answer them in the right way. The world was not built for him. It was built for someone who understood metaphors, nuance etc.

Why are you on this thread then?

Why come on a thread just to say that?