Father in law said he couldn’t come help us because he’d be too FKD

It’s sad your FIL wouldn’t help,out, we had the same when we asked once to baby sit for an hour in the evening when both kids were in bed and our meetings clashed for voluntary groups (scouts). He was only 1 minute away in the car. Never asked again.
I didn’t have my parents nearby but had a group of friends and we helped each other out especially for things like picking up from playgroup and school when we were starting back at work. It was very hard still though. Had a hubby who was away working for weeks at a time.
Take care and try not to let it upset you.

You needed to ask friends. If your labours are quick you need someone local.

I had 3 or 4 friends on hand each time, plus my neighbours as a last resort.

If that really wasn’t an option you needed to accept that you might have to labour on your own and adjust your plans and expectations around that.

Expecting people to travel and stay with you ‘just in case’ is not normal or reasonable.

Your FIL sounds awful, he seems like he's aware of that himself and isn't going to change. Hard to imagine someone failing to step up in that kind of situation.

I think you're being given a very hard time here. You clearly aren't expecting family to look after your kids, you've chosen to have a third and expect to deal with the consequences yourselves. This is a pretty one off situation particularly given the speed of your labours. Of course FIL should be making himself available.

But... Given you don't have family nearby I also think you need to set up other emergency options for this and other situations. You need reciprocal support from local friends and neighbours who you can call in the middle of the night if it's a real emergency. Longer term these people can also babysit, pick up your kids from school if you're running late etc, and you can do the same for them. This is incredibly important if you don't have family locally and will make your lives a lot easier.

I agree 100% with this comment. Don’t have children and expect any respite, ever. Especially not a third. Some people just don’t ‘do’ babies - especially men. I don’t blame them and how you can’t see he’s trying to excuse himself for helping at all, is beyond me. Doesn’t make him a bad person.

Not specifically about this thread (although some elements can certainly be found in this one) but I think our demographic future is in trouble if you think MN is in any way a representative sample of the British mindset. There's a general consensus on here that as a woman:

-You can't expect any help with childcare - or even just moral support - from grandparents under any circumstances. Literally anything is more important than supporting you and your DC. There's no 'it takes a village' attitude for you here!
-You have to suck it up with excruciatingly expensive childcare; but can't have you scrounge off the state oh no. How do you make the money to afford it? Not our problem, because kids are a 'lifestyle choice'
-Fine, then you can't afford childcare so you stay at home. You can't be a vulnerable SAHM either because if you're in the evil clutches of an abusive DH, it'll be your own fault. But remember points one and two of course.
-Don't want kids because literally everything is against you if you do? Well, we don't want immigrants either!

I think we might have an issue long term...

I've been on this forum for many years and there was always this undercurrent but I miss the supportive voices that used to be much more prevalent in the past.

We see a lot on MN - 'Put your big girls pants on and say no' 'No is a complete sentence' 'Don't be such a pushover' 'That doesn't work for me - say that' etc.

People are allowed to say No back too,which is what your FIL did.

Works both ways.

Congratulations on the birth of your baby.
I'm sorry you feel your father in law isn't showing any interest in your family but I'm not sure why you need him. It was very good of your mum to come and stay so she was there to look after your older children when the baby was born. But your baby is here now so surely your mum can go home. You don't need your father in law.
Does your husband get paternity leave? Can't he take it now and the five of you can get used to being a family of five.

She has a husband. She is not alone or needing to be 'independent'.

She actually also did have her mother who for some reason she chose to run into the ground rendering her so tired, she had to go home, on a long journey aged 72.

@DonnyBurrito

meh 🤷‍♀️ it’s a risk I’ll take. I’m also aware I could be at my offspring’s beck and call 24/6 7 days a week every single day of the year and they may still fuck me off in my old age. So you know while I can still enjoy my life I will balance making both myself and others the priority. And you can just be a Martr if that’s what you so wish.

Even if FIL had agreed to come, he was asked to come on Saturday and go home on Sunday. He lives a 2 hour train journey away and the OP is in London so presumably there is also time needed to cross London to get to her.

So best case scenario he would have arrived Saturday around lunchtime and left mid afternoon on Sunday. As OP apparently needed two adults with her at all times due to the risk of going into precipitous labour, the knackered and exhausted 72 year old mum was only going to get about 12 hours in her own home after a long drive there and back. Hardly the respite OP is saying she needed!

Why could knackered mum not be told to put her feet up and totally relax from OP’s husband finishing work on Friday evening to him going back in on Monday morning. With not so much as a tea towel to be lifted and cups of tea and all meals made for her. Far more refreshing and if the baby did arrive over the weekend, she’d have had no school run to do and a much easier time of it

Honestly this is a real drama over not much!

YABU to expect him to suddenly change into a decent person. He’s clearly a rubbish man and father and has been from the beginning. Expecting anything more is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Your partner needs to decide whether he wants a relationship with the man he is - it’s clear he’s not intending to change. Personally I’d call it a day.

this is just so cold and depressing.

society has lost so much of its warmth and care. Caring for each other (which usually is most notable to and from those closest to us eg family) is one of the best parts of human nature. I feel sorry for this poster if this is your take on life.

I disagree- not everyone is able to just drop everything because their child decided to have a family. Some people have to work, or have other commitments- especially if they live some distance away. Some people just don’t want to- they would in an emergency, but feel that their children should be able to cope day to day. And, realistically, most people do not actually need 24/7 live in support for weeks on end after they have a baby. Especially if they are couple, not a single parent.

I mean- do most parents seriously think they need a 3rd adult to come and live with them 24/7 for several weeks after they have had a baby? I don’t know many who would expect, or even want, that.

I would never expect my parents or PIL to be “at my beck and call”- they aren’t subservient to me because I decided to have a baby. I think that is a ridiculously entitled and absolutely horrible attitude to have. I’d expect my parents to be supportive and caring, but that doesn’t mean they have to do whatever I want.

And, in this case they have had someone at their beck and call for over 2 weeks. Someone they have managed to exhaust so much they felt they needed to draft in a replacement for a few days before she has to come back to be exhausted all over again. FIL had a pre-existing arrangement and even if it was going out to a works do and I would agree it doesn’t sound like something that it would be much of a hardship to miss, the point is he did not want to. I do think if it was urgent, he should have dropped what he was doing to help, of course- this was not an emergency, by the sound of it. It’s not terribly altruistic, but it isn’t that terrible either.

No idea why OP is getting such a hard time. What is this obsession with having to be totally independent even during the tough times?
OP asks almost nothing on a regular level of any of the family but needed this to help in a potential emergency. Good god would you lot not do this for your DC?

Im more grateful than ever for my amazing mum, sisters and in laws who are there to help when we need it. It doesn’t have to equal taking the piss if you have people who love and care about you to rely on when you are struggling. I’d do and have done the same for any of them. Because we are family and we love each other.

OP he sounds a selfish arsehole. I’d not be bothering with him because sure as hell you can know he will expect all your help when he gets old and has hospital visits etc.

Op I’m going to offer an alternative view because as per usual MNS are out in full force to make women feel guilty for wanting or needing help during postpartum which btw is absolutely normal. In fact in a lot of cultures women go through postpartum confinement and grandparents help out with childcare, nourishing meals and nighttime so new mum can rest.

It’s no wonder that so many new mums are struggling with child raising because there is a huge rise in hedonism and less reciprocal support between generations.

I had tremendous amount of help from GPS and still do but less so as they have got older and it’s now our turn to ensure we go out of our way for the GPS.

What you asked of FIL is bare minimum and you are absolutely right to feel annoyed. I have said this in another thread that such grandparents then wonder why they’re sat alone in a hospital bed with no visitors.

He has no obligation to you or your children
He might feel uncomfortable around small children
He might be ill and just not saying anything
He might have a very active social life and that makes him tired

He doesn't owe you anything, he's raised his children, your children are your responsibility

I only had 1 child because of the fact that I had no one to help and I knew childcare will be super expensive. I won’t put myself and my child in the situation that we won’t be able to enjoy life because we can’t afford to do things therefore I stopped.

you on the other hand continued to have kids and expect everyone to jump when you ask for help. Sorry hun but you are OTT

I don’t understand why you’d post on AIBU when everyone is saying yes you were BU and you’re not accepting it.

Sometimes mumsnet is weird - almost mums hating! I don’t really understand why you’re getting such grief. We similarly struggled for support with birth of our 2nd such that I had a nanny agency and neighbours on call at different points. Thankfully that wasn’t needed. But I did start at hospital on my own till my SIL could get help

Im not convinced that declining birth rates are a bad thing.

But in any case, this is another example of how this is a cultural expectation in some places and in some families, but not in this case. And the majority of voters also feel OP is unreasonable so its fair to say that this minor straw poll would suggest that culturally this is how it is here and thats ok.

Its somewhat irrelevant to say this is how it it is x or y country, what is the point of saying this? To say its better or not?

On MN, daring to want to have a few drinks and have fun on a social is a cardinal sin. Especially if male

I think what you're really saying OP us that you're upset that your children's grandparent isn't really interested in son or grandchildren, which i would find pretty devastating.
I also find it incredibly sad to read from so many others that you shouldn't expect help from parents as I would hope this wouldn't be an expectation, but a given.
What a privilege to be invited to share the most incredible time in a family's life....and being able to support your own kids in ways that probably haven't been possible for 15 years.
I know I was incredibly lucky (I realise even more so reading this sorry thread) but all four of our kids' grandparents were delighted to help us whenever they could. Each set looked after them a day pw so i could go back to work. DH's mum used to play endless role play games and my parents couldn't keep away, my dad often calling round to see if anyone was playing. They made dens, pizzas, poems, paintings, operas, puppet theatres, gardens together. My kids had the time of their lives and our parents often refer to these early years as the best of their lives too. Looking back together on these times gives us all a wonderful sense of family and we marvel at the kids we've raised between us. They were all over 70 when our kids appeared and now, well into their 80s are active, interesting and sprightly- I wonder if their grandparenting has had an impact on this?
I genuinely feel sorry for the people I've known who have begrudged helping their kids out with grandchildren.
I am sorry that you are having to deal with this OP in the early days of your new creature, many congratulations and all the best x

I don’t get the impression that FIL is drunk every weekend, but he was attending an end of year work event, you know once a year. Not spending his “weekends drunk”.

I mean how fucking dare he want to have a bit of a social life, between his working weeks….

Where I come from, it's customary for relatives to step in and offer support during childbirth and the postpartum period. We have a tradition known as omugwo, where a close family member stays with the new mother for about 40 days to help care for her and the baby. During this time, the mother is not expected to lift a finger. I believe that in many cultures with higher birth rates, similar support systems exist. Family involvement, both before and after birth, is seen as essential. These days, it is optional. People can decide for themselves how much support they want or need.
So for the OP to expect her father-in-law to offer just a day or two of support to his son and heavily pregnant daughter-in-law, and then receive such harsh pushback for it, is baffling to me. She’s not being lazy, both she and her husband worked right up until the due date. They simply need some help during a tricky time.
The idea that her father-in-law shouldn't be expected to help at all, and that the couple must handle everything entirely on their own, strikes me as unreasonable. This hyper-individualistic mindset is something the West gets wrong. I suspect it's one of the key factors contributing to declining birth rates in Western societies.

So why quote me. Put your post on without doing so.