To think I've f*cked things up for my daughter even more

smokingpoppy · 2025-07-18T22:09:02+00:00

ND yr 7 daughter has a few nice but slightly rebellious friends. She struggles with school anyway, on a reduced time table due to overwhelm etc. In her absence an older 'wrong'un' from the year above has infiltrated the friend group, giving out vapes and generally being a bad influence/ pushing boundaries even more. My daughter has no filter and made her feelings known to the other girls. They told the wrong'un who has now turned on my daughter and is threatening her. Long threatening voice notes etc. She's got a history of fighting, suspended for it etc. The wrong'un is demanding my daughter makes a big public apology to the whole friendship group for 'talking shit about her'. (She hasn't been talking shite she was just honest that she felt uncomfortable about stuff to her friends) I mistakenly told one of the friend's parents who went straight to the wrong'un mum and told her. So now the threats have gone up a gear. I have definitely made it worse. I shouldn't have trusted the other mum. I now have exactly 100% chance of getting my daughter in to school ever again. WWYD? Tell the school? What can they do at the end of term?

EvieBB · 03/08/2025 23:45

Ringthebell26 · 19/07/2025 01:40

I’m 42 and I’m scared of Cece!!

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😆

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 09:17

Velmy · 20/07/2025 01:26

she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating

Can you see how someone who always speaks "bluntly and with no sugar-coating" might actually come across as abrasive, confrontational or rude to others? Especially kids? Particularly this kid, who from the sounds of it has a hell of a lot going on at home and is likely lashing out as a result of that?

It might be worth having this chat with your daughter and explaining that it's not always appropriate to share everything that's on her mind so directly.

You say that your daughter is insisting on this apology...what will you say to her if the girl doesn't accept it?

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No it never occurred to me. I definitely haven’t been ‘having this chat with her’ all her life. 🙄

OP posts:

beAsensible1 · 20/07/2025 09:10

Don’t go grovelling to a bully either. Apologise for what. She should ignore her and invite her friend over during the summer so they can build bonds and make stories so by the next year there’s no room for her to muscle in.

beAsensible1 · 20/07/2025 09:06

Velmy · 19/07/2025 04:43

I've dealt with plenty and they're almost all absolute cowards. If they wanted a fight, they'd find one with someone who could fight back. They don't want a fight. That's why they pick on people they think can't/won't retaliate.

I'm of the view that all children should be taught how to properly defend themselves, but regardless, you don't have to be physically strong to whack someone in the nose. It doesn't matter if you lose the fight, as long as you fight.

You'll encounter bullies all your life. The sooner you get some backbone instead of relying on other people to solve your problems as a first response, the better.

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This. I want particularly strong and was being consistently harassed by this girl for weeks in the end wacked her with my bag. We had a scuff and then she left me alone forever.

I was suspended for a few days and she was for a week. Teacher said I had to be as it would look like favouritism otherwise. And we all Moved on.

at some point you have to get a backbone otherwise you’ll end up like the people on here who all afraid to talk to their neighbours

Velmy · 20/07/2025 01:26

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 00:00

Not being rude but you couldn’t be further from the truth, my DD has zero filter. She’s the least timid person I know. Naive yes. But not timid.

In fact she’s a massive inspiration to me because she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating, all the time. It’s one of her ASD traits. But she is never mean, she’s simply not interested in drama. She doesn’t hold grudges and is incredibly pragmatic. She just moves through life saying what she wants to say in a practical, no nonsense fashion as if it’s the most logical thing in the world.

Everyone who knows her would say she knows her own mind and makes it very clear. No one has ever mentioned the word timid.

This is all her idea. I couldn’t MAKE her play it differently if I tried. She has decided she wants to shut down the drama and move on. An apology is what she thinks will do this. So that’s what she will do.

As for me, you are also misreading. I am mainly nice and warm and accommodating BUT can be hot headed if pushed and have dropped many ‘friends’ in my life who have forced a confrontation/ taken the piss. I definitely do not suck anything up. In fact, i am working on being more tolerant and less black and white about things.

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she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating

Can you see how someone who always speaks "bluntly and with no sugar-coating" might actually come across as abrasive, confrontational or rude to others? Especially kids? Particularly this kid, who from the sounds of it has a hell of a lot going on at home and is likely lashing out as a result of that?

It might be worth having this chat with your daughter and explaining that it's not always appropriate to share everything that's on her mind so directly.

You say that your daughter is insisting on this apology...what will you say to her if the girl doesn't accept it?

EmeraldShamrock000 · 20/07/2025 00:37

Contact the school. The only issue is that these kids are ruthless and don't fear consequences so she may not be deterred from the fight.

I'm not excusing this bully, separately, as hard as it is to change traits it is possible, you need to teach DD to write things down before being direct, her opinion isn't always required, my friends DC is very direct too, she doesn't intend to be rude, her DM thinks it is a good thing she us honest, she is disliked by everyone and comes across as rude, it makes life harder for her at 14, one day she will be hit by another teenager.

NautilusLionfish · 20/07/2025 00:31

ToKittyornottoKitty · 19/07/2025 00:17

Why do you think her established friendship group betrayed her and told the other girl what your daughter had said about her?

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Bullies can garner amazing levels of loyalty. Or scare people

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 00:26

Dearnurse · 20/07/2025 00:08

Go speak to the child's mother & the child if there are threats , I would not tolerate that at all firstly .. the vapes thing is pretty usual for teens , mine don't & it's really strict at their school, mine go to private school so not many "wrong uns" not that I agree with calling an 11 year old a "wrong un" .. your daughter was trying to exclude the girl for the right reasons but it was unkind as I said I think this could be sorted with a chat with both girls & her mum .. let her know about the vapes & other behaviour that concerns you but be understanding & kind .

The mum does not care. She’s got bigger fish to fry. Social services involved re cece’s drug addict older sibling and teen mum sibling. I know this through the other mum who is her family friend. She phoned this evening. This is minor in their world.

I now feel very sorry for Cece. I realise saying wrong’un was not appropriate, it was a lazy way to explain the behaviour. And am telling the school incase they are building a safeguarding case. I do not think brazening it out with cece and fanning the flames is in my DDs interest. And like I said before, she will say what us wants regardless of my thoughts on the matter.

School can take appropriate action. This is too big a battle for my DD to fight. fair enough.

OP posts:

SquishedMallow · 20/07/2025 00:24

Dearnurse · 20/07/2025 00:08

Go speak to the child's mother & the child if there are threats , I would not tolerate that at all firstly .. the vapes thing is pretty usual for teens , mine don't & it's really strict at their school, mine go to private school so not many "wrong uns" not that I agree with calling an 11 year old a "wrong un" .. your daughter was trying to exclude the girl for the right reasons but it was unkind as I said I think this could be sorted with a chat with both girls & her mum .. let her know about the vapes & other behaviour that concerns you but be understanding & kind .

Oh jeez... Tell me you don't know what the real world is like out there without telling me ? Good grief. #bekind doesn't work for wrong uns you know? And she is a wrong un. Worse probably. Bloody "kindness". It'd be lovely if we all lived in your little world. But most of us don't. Nice humble brag about the private school and it's lack of commoners by the way 👌

SquishedMallow · 20/07/2025 00:12

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 00:00

Not being rude but you couldn’t be further from the truth, my DD has zero filter. She’s the least timid person I know. Naive yes. But not timid.

In fact she’s a massive inspiration to me because she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating, all the time. It’s one of her ASD traits. But she is never mean, she’s simply not interested in drama. She doesn’t hold grudges and is incredibly pragmatic. She just moves through life saying what she wants to say in a practical, no nonsense fashion as if it’s the most logical thing in the world.

Everyone who knows her would say she knows her own mind and makes it very clear. No one has ever mentioned the word timid.

This is all her idea. I couldn’t MAKE her play it differently if I tried. She has decided she wants to shut down the drama and move on. An apology is what she thinks will do this. So that’s what she will do.

As for me, you are also misreading. I am mainly nice and warm and accommodating BUT can be hot headed if pushed and have dropped many ‘friends’ in my life who have forced a confrontation/ taken the piss. I definitely do not suck anything up. In fact, i am working on being more tolerant and less black and white about things.

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Ok fair enough. You obviously know yourself and your DD best.

If she thinks that is the best course of action then I hope it helps. Fingers crossed 🤞 it's not a nice situation to be dealing with for either of you. I get that.

TwattyMcFuckFace · 20/07/2025 00:10

It seems as though your DD's friendship group have decided to welcome this girl into the group in your DD's absence.

This has pushed your DD's nose out of joint (understandably).

She's the only one (or so it seems) who is not accepting of this girl joining the group (for fairly valid reasons it would seem), but there's nothing she can do about it.

If her friends are forced to choose between your DD who won't accept the new addition, or the new addition who will accept your DD, it's not going to end well for anyone really.

I still think there's a certain amount of naivety around the 'pushing' of the vapes.

They're at an age where unfortunately, they're often curious enough to try these things.

It doesn't always mean they're 'pushed' into it.

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 00:10

Update: I am going to tell the school.

OP posts:

Dearnurse · 20/07/2025 00:08

Go speak to the child's mother & the child if there are threats , I would not tolerate that at all firstly .. the vapes thing is pretty usual for teens , mine don't & it's really strict at their school, mine go to private school so not many "wrong uns" not that I agree with calling an 11 year old a "wrong un" .. your daughter was trying to exclude the girl for the right reasons but it was unkind as I said I think this could be sorted with a chat with both girls & her mum .. let her know about the vapes & other behaviour that concerns you but be understanding & kind .

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 20/07/2025 00:00

SquishedMallow · 19/07/2025 23:12

I'm sorry to kick you when you're down : but I can kind of see why you're poor daughter is timid and passive. You're considering getting your DD who is now the victim here to apologise . You also backed down with the "wrong un " thing just because someone gave their opinion on you using the word. I would have used something far harsher than 'wrong un' and I'd have stuck to my guns (and I'm not the world's most assertive person ) but when it comes to my children forget assertive, I'd be aggressive if I had to.

You're being so passive and wishy washy. Your DD is likely picking up on how you deal with people and situations.

I know this is incredibly difficult for you and your daughter and I do sympathise wholly. But you do need to find your inner tiger (as does she ) . The only way bullies learn is if you give them a right hook or you use brass and bullshit to give a good show that you're not being messed about with anymore. "Brazen it out " . Your daughter starts sniffing round her grovelling will not solve a thing.

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Not being rude but you couldn’t be further from the truth, my DD has zero filter. She’s the least timid person I know. Naive yes. But not timid.

In fact she’s a massive inspiration to me because she speaks her mind, bluntly and with no sugarcoating, all the time. It’s one of her ASD traits. But she is never mean, she’s simply not interested in drama. She doesn’t hold grudges and is incredibly pragmatic. She just moves through life saying what she wants to say in a practical, no nonsense fashion as if it’s the most logical thing in the world.

Everyone who knows her would say she knows her own mind and makes it very clear. No one has ever mentioned the word timid.

This is all her idea. I couldn’t MAKE her play it differently if I tried. She has decided she wants to shut down the drama and move on. An apology is what she thinks will do this. So that’s what she will do.

As for me, you are also misreading. I am mainly nice and warm and accommodating BUT can be hot headed if pushed and have dropped many ‘friends’ in my life who have forced a confrontation/ taken the piss. I definitely do not suck anything up. In fact, i am working on being more tolerant and less black and white about things.

OP posts:

Velmy · 19/07/2025 23:18

SquishedMallow · 19/07/2025 23:12

I'm sorry to kick you when you're down : but I can kind of see why you're poor daughter is timid and passive. You're considering getting your DD who is now the victim here to apologise . You also backed down with the "wrong un " thing just because someone gave their opinion on you using the word. I would have used something far harsher than 'wrong un' and I'd have stuck to my guns (and I'm not the world's most assertive person ) but when it comes to my children forget assertive, I'd be aggressive if I had to.

You're being so passive and wishy washy. Your DD is likely picking up on how you deal with people and situations.

I know this is incredibly difficult for you and your daughter and I do sympathise wholly. But you do need to find your inner tiger (as does she ) . The only way bullies learn is if you give them a right hook or you use brass and bullshit to give a good show that you're not being messed about with anymore. "Brazen it out " . Your daughter starts sniffing round her grovelling will not solve a thing.

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Great post.

SquishedMallow · 19/07/2025 23:12

smokingpoppy · 19/07/2025 17:25

Thanks for all the advice, some better than others. I think the plan is to apologise to cece (for what? My DD’s exact words were ‘I don’t want to hang out with cece tomorrow because she’s bringing in that thing (a vape) do we have to?) But whatever, if it defuses the situation over summer hopefully she’ll move on to friends her own age and that’s the best we can hope for.

will log it all and keep records. The threats were vague ‘you better watch out’ ‘you should be scared’ etc. So maybe I panicked to soon because of her history of violence. Can school do anything about vague threats?

I'm sorry to kick you when you're down : but I can kind of see why you're poor daughter is timid and passive. You're considering getting your DD who is now the victim here to apologise . You also backed down with the "wrong un " thing just because someone gave their opinion on you using the word. I would have used something far harsher than 'wrong un' and I'd have stuck to my guns (and I'm not the world's most assertive person ) but when it comes to my children forget assertive, I'd be aggressive if I had to.

You're being so passive and wishy washy. Your DD is likely picking up on how you deal with people and situations.

I know this is incredibly difficult for you and your daughter and I do sympathise wholly. But you do need to find your inner tiger (as does she ) . The only way bullies learn is if you give them a right hook or you use brass and bullshit to give a good show that you're not being messed about with anymore. "Brazen it out " . Your daughter starts sniffing round her grovelling will not solve a thing.

SquishedMallow · 19/07/2025 23:05

Velmy · 19/07/2025 04:14

Yes you do 😅

If you feel physically threatened by a bully (as a child or an adult), you use reasonable and proportionate force to deal with them. And that doesn't mean waiting until they hit you first.

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Yes I agree. It is usually what stops them.

LarryUnderwood · 19/07/2025 22:25

School should have been your first port of call - meeting with head of your daughter's year and head of year for Cece. You can still do that now. Also police for threats. Bullies usually back off when you show you won't just put up with it. At my sons' school they would take all of this very seriously and would deal with it swiftly. Much easier for them to nip it in the bud at the earliest stage possible. Please write to the school or call and talk to the head of year first thing on Monday.

Brefugee · 19/07/2025 20:40

she has sent threats by text, and you still have them? go to the police

Robotindisguise · 19/07/2025 20:38

Yes, school will record vague threats. Are you really suggesting your DD apologise to this individual when she doesn’t want to? And put up with the vaping when she doesn’t want to? Your DD seems to have good boundaries, I would support her in those

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 19/07/2025 17:25

Thanks for all the advice, some better than others. I think the plan is to apologise to cece (for what? My DD’s exact words were ‘I don’t want to hang out with cece tomorrow because she’s bringing in that thing (a vape) do we have to?) But whatever, if it defuses the situation over summer hopefully she’ll move on to friends her own age and that’s the best we can hope for.

will log it all and keep records. The threats were vague ‘you better watch out’ ‘you should be scared’ etc. So maybe I panicked to soon because of her history of violence. Can school do anything about vague threats?

OP posts:

Original poster

smokingpoppy · 19/07/2025 17:20

Update. Cece continues to demand public apology and has issued ultimatum because she not leaving friend group but doesn’t want DD in it anymore. So other girls need to choose. Could go either way, one girl is an old family friend since before she went off the rails. And seems tempted by the excitement/ cool points of hanging round with Cece who has a big reputation (but no real friends) and keeping her on side. Other girl more neutral/ out of the loop

friend’s mum was trying to help by telling Cece’s mum, bit clueless but well intentioned. (They are old friends remember) but she doesn’t want her DD hanging round with her either and has made that clear to child.

apparently social services are involved already cos Cece has been caught shoplifting and has a messy home life with borderline neglect. I feel for Cece but obviously this is very clouded by worry re my DD who is extra naive and socially immature due to ASD.

OP posts:

SeriousFaffing · 19/07/2025 15:51

Robotindisguise · 19/07/2025 08:39

God above there is some terrible advice on here.

I agree with one of the posters above (one of the minority of sensible voices) saying that this was going to escalate anyway.

Your daughter is completely within her rights to tell her established friends that vaping and smoking weed (these are 12 year olds!) makes her uncomfortable. This is not talking shit about someone. For it to be talking shit it needs to be either untrue or exaggerated.

Sit down with your daughter and go through the friendship group one by one. Who is on board with this, and who is also likely to be uncomfortable, but is just keeping quiet so they don’t get the same treatment?

I’m sorry the other mum was such a let-down. How well do you know the other mums? I can’t believe there is no-one else in the group whose mum would not be on board with stepping in over an older girl who smokes weed and bullies, joining the group.

For what it’s worth, I see no issue with you calling her a wrong’ un. Right now, she is wrong.

The fact that she’s doing things which are illegal means that you can make a safeguarding referral, for Cece and for the rest of the group. The designated safeguarding lead will be across this through the holidays, but will be checking more intensively this week so I’d crack on. Good luck - and sympathies from one ND kid’s mum to another.

Is your DD a member of any other social group? I’ve always followed Steve Biddulph’s Raising Girls tip that girls should always have more than one social group so if it goes pear-shaped, there is another setting without the stress. Guides?

👏 best bit of advice on here.

All of this, “your daughter shouldn’t have been talking about her behind her back” - what are you, teenagers??

SeriousFaffing · 19/07/2025 15:36

Bridgetjonesheart · 19/07/2025 00:08

Seems some of us never really leave school.

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Agree with this.

OP, you did break your daughter’s trust and you’ll have to work hard over a long period of time to earn it back. I think you need to acknowledge what you did and apologise to her, explain why you did it (you were worried about her, hoped to make things better) but in hindsight it was a silly thing to do and you broke her trust.

You need to speak to the school about this, especially the threatening voice notes. But talk to your daughter first, explain why you need to do it and that it might be difficult to hear, but it is important that she feels as safe and secure as she can be. You need to be informing her of what will happen in a calm and sensible way. You, her and the school need to come up with a plan of action.

ETA after having read some of the other comments, I wanted to add that I fully support your daughter in taking a stand against this in the way that she has. The mum of the other child (as someone else has said) is clearly facilitating her behaviour and that’s raises concern about general morals/accountability. I wouldn’t want my child anywhere near them - but I appreciate that it’s far less simple than that.

Stiffnewknee · 19/07/2025 10:37

@SummerCanDoOne
When scienctists discovered how the teenage brain works and the impact of adverse childhood experiences on that brain development?
I work with teenagers and some are bloody challenging but there's almost never not a reason for it.

Well our experiences differ. Are you seriously saying that teenagers are not in control of their actions because that’s ridiculous! The OP has not said that the bully has had any adverse childhood experiences! You’re making excuses for them without knowing the facts. I’ve also worked with teenagers and most who were challenging did not have any reasons other than people like you making excuses for them resulting in them not taking the responsibility for their actions. That didn’t lead to good outcomes for them as adults. Whilst the ACE and trauma informed practices may be relevant for some, it certainly isn’t for the vast majority. If anything it’s had an overall negative long term effect on a lot of kids who have grown up into adults who think they will never be held accountable for their actions!