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to think that just because you say something about Israel and Gaza does not mean that you should be threatened with arrest under the terrorism act?

482 replies

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 18:59

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flag

She had a sign saying "Free Gaza" and "Israel is committing genocide"

She was threatened with arrest under the terrorism act because a certain group that has been deemed to be a terrorist group also share those same views - and therefore the lady was supporting a terrorist group.

In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”

He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence.

I can think of many groups who share those same beliefs. Having that belief does not mean you support that group.

A Kent police spokesperson said: “Under the Terrorism Act it is a criminal offence to carry or display items that may arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation such as Palestine Action.”

Armed police threatened to arrest Kent protester for holding Palestinian flag

Officers accused Laura Murton who also had a sign saying ‘Free Gaza’ of supporting a proscribed organisation

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flag

OP posts:
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cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:44

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:42

Why are you asking me? Don't you know the police would have had to have complied with PACE? As you're an expert in legislation, I'm sure you know what PACE is.

Edited

You said that this person had broken the Terrorism Law.

I have given you the leglisation - so surely it's not too hard for you to explain your thinking

OP posts:
Aimeeeeee · 18/07/2025 21:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:42

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:40

But you seemed to be convinced they have broken the law under this leglisation

I have given you the law - so maybe you can explain your thinking?

Why are you asking me? Don't you know the police would have had to have complied with PACE? As you're an expert in legislation, I'm sure you know what PACE is.

stuckdownahole · 18/07/2025 21:42

spoonbillstretford · 18/07/2025 21:29

Don't be daft. This is police overstepping, as they often do, and it happened loads under the last government- remember Covid, and the Sarah Everard protests? Anti terror legilslation has been around for ages.

The Southport muppet was spreading racial hatred and misinformation causing violence and rioting.

The example in this thread is of someone criticising a country perpetuating extreme violence, which is permitted as part of one of our fundamental human rights Nigel Farage wants to ger rid of, freedom of speech. It's completely different.

Edited

You probably think I disagree with you, but I broadly don't.

Those shameful police overreactions during Covid happened because non-adherence to lockdown rules was reframed as having the potential to cause harm. The police could therefore deal with non-violent rulebreakers as if they were putting the public in danger.

Starmer's personality and prior experience will lead him to create more law categorising various types of speech and protest as potentially harmful, and it will be dealt with by the police as such.

Edit: and even worse, creating an open goal for Farage, who I do not support. I think Starmer is a prig, a petty authoritarian, a school prefect, a middle-management arsehole. I think Farage is dodgy in a way that will make us yearn for the clean-cut government of Boris Johnson if he comes to power.

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:42

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:41

Being 'all over the legislation' doesn't mean you've got yourself a gotcha.

I've shown you the leglisation
You said that this person had broken the law under this leglisation

So surely it's not to difficult to say why they have broken the law.

OP posts:
TheGentleButFirmMadonna · 18/07/2025 21:42

Judeo-Christians. Heard of that

2024onwardsandup · 18/07/2025 21:42

pointythings · 18/07/2025 21:41

I don't see it, but some people think 'they can always tell'. It's a tough time for anyone not conforming to identikit femininity.

Have you watched the video?

pointythings · 18/07/2025 21:41

Letterasaurus · 18/07/2025 21:18

Is the person in that Guardian pic a man?

I don't see it, but some people think 'they can always tell'. It's a tough time for anyone not conforming to identikit femininity.

2024onwardsandup · 18/07/2025 21:41

spoonbillstretford · 18/07/2025 21:29

Don't be daft. This is police overstepping, as they often do, and it happened loads under the last government- remember Covid, and the Sarah Everard protests? Anti terror legilslation has been around for ages.

The Southport muppet was spreading racial hatred and misinformation causing violence and rioting.

The example in this thread is of someone criticising a country perpetuating extreme violence, which is permitted as part of one of our fundamental human rights Nigel Farage wants to ger rid of, freedom of speech. It's completely different.

Edited

completely different? The rise in anti semitism in the UK says differenr

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:41

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:39

I was also all over the Covid leglisation when it came out about what the actual law said you could and couldn't do.

It really helps to know what you can and can't do.

Being 'all over the legislation' doesn't mean you've got yourself a gotcha.

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:40

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:39

I'm sure a human rights lawyer will jump in and tell the police they made an unlawful arrest. Maybe the human rights lawyer, who was arrested, can help. On second thoughts...

But you seemed to be convinced they have broken the law under this leglisation

I have given you the law - so maybe you can explain your thinking?

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:39

I was also all over the Covid leglisation when it came out about what the actual law said you could and couldn't do.

It really helps to know what you can and can't do.

OP posts:
Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:39

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:36

Support.

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and

(b)the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property (within the meaning of section 15).

[F1(1A)A person commits an offence if the person—

(a)expresses an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, and

(b)in doing so is reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation

Can you explain how this person is breaking the law under Section 12 of the Terrorism Act?

I'm sure a human rights lawyer will jump in and tell the police they made an unlawful arrest. Maybe the human rights lawyer, who was arrested, can help. On second thoughts...

Kakeandkake · 18/07/2025 21:37

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:37

No, youŕe just signalling your virtue on the Internet.

The irony. Again.

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:37

Kakeandkake · 18/07/2025 21:27

Yes, because unlike you, I'm not sneering at people who advocate for a cause from somewhere up on your high horse.

No, youŕe just signalling your virtue on the Internet.

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:36

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:32

What's wrong - I thought you liked free speech?

Support.

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he invites support for a proscribed organisation, and

(b)the support is not, or is not restricted to, the provision of money or other property (within the meaning of section 15).

[F1(1A)A person commits an offence if the person—

(a)expresses an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, and

(b)in doing so is reckless as to whether a person to whom the expression is directed will be encouraged to support a proscribed organisation

Can you explain how this person is breaking the law under Section 12 of the Terrorism Act?

OP posts:
Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:32

TheCrenchinglyMcQuaffenBrothers · 18/07/2025 21:20

Do you need help with how to hide the thread?

What's wrong - I thought you liked free speech?

Toastandbutterand · 18/07/2025 21:30

It was someone in a dinosaur costume. Have no idea what they were protesting.

Again: why is this in the news now when it been happening for years?

It's a load of shit. I'm starting to get angry with it. You don't arrest someyfor holding a sign unless you're an oppressor.

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 21:29

2024onwardsandup · 18/07/2025 21:16

The person protesting is upset about not being able to say free Gaza - but I strongly suspect that he (and many of the people on the thread) supports people not being able to say that he’s a man and use he.

compelling speech both ways

i think people should be able to say both
(but i also think there are some slogans that can become so linked to terrorist orgs that they are supporting them even if not actually saying that)

The protestor is upset about facing the threat of arrest under the Terrorism Act which is a very serious thing to be arrested for.

OP posts:
spoonbillstretford · 18/07/2025 21:29

stuckdownahole · 18/07/2025 21:22

Yes, but we bloody warned you all when the Southport thing happened and some stupid credulous woman who believed the internet rumour that the killer was an asylum seeker lodged in a hotel, wrote "set fire to the hotels full of the bastards for all I care" and got sentenced to two and a half years in prison. She will be let out early for good behaviour because she's just some idiot who got carried away one evening and decided to give the world the benefit of her brainless opinion on Twitter. She was prosecuted under the law that is designed to deal with someone giving a hate-fuelled oration at a neo-Nazi rally.

And you all went, eurgh, horrible racist woman, she deserves to go to prison.

And now today some other wacko was sitting harmlessly by the side of the road with a sign saying that a foreign power thousands of miles away, which is currently winning a war with its neighbour by virtue of much superior military technology, is committing genocide. An opinion which is quite widely shared. And the police showed up and threatened to arrest them, under the law that is designed to deal with someone who would, say, publicly express their support for the 7/7 bombers.

It should be dawning on a few people now that we are being governed by someone who is basically a lawyer-cop. His reaction to hearing something doesn't like is to make it illegal. He's also thin-skinned and tetchy, as we can see from the number of elected representatives he expels from his own party.

And I voted for the bastard.

Edited

Don't be daft. This is police overstepping, as they often do, and it happened loads under the last government- remember Covid, and the Sarah Everard protests? Anti terror legilslation has been around for ages.

The Southport muppet was spreading racial hatred and misinformation causing violence and rioting.

The example in this thread is of someone criticising a country perpetuating extreme violence, which is permitted as part of one of our fundamental human rights Nigel Farage wants to ger rid of, freedom of speech. It's completely different.

GiraffesAtThePark · 18/07/2025 21:27

2024onwardsandup · 18/07/2025 21:16

The person protesting is upset about not being able to say free Gaza - but I strongly suspect that he (and many of the people on the thread) supports people not being able to say that he’s a man and use he.

compelling speech both ways

i think people should be able to say both
(but i also think there are some slogans that can become so linked to terrorist orgs that they are supporting them even if not actually saying that)

You’re right that people can be hypocrites and only support freedom of speech for causes they care about. I wish that wasn’t the case.

Kakeandkake · 18/07/2025 21:27

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 21:17

Keyboard warrior for posting on Mumsnet? Welcome to the club, then. The morally superior advocates are those who are condescending Gazans. The Thunberg selfie brigade.

Yes, because unlike you, I'm not sneering at people who advocate for a cause from somewhere up on your high horse.

Toastandbutterand · 18/07/2025 21:25

Seriously, every day someone's stood at that roundabout with a sign.

I'm trying to think of the last time someone was arrested. It was a few years ago though and there were loads of them.

Completely disproportionate in my view.

spoonbillstretford · 18/07/2025 21:22

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 19:20

Look, PAG have been proscribed as terrorists. These are the idiots, who immobilise military aircraft. Are they any better than the other hard left thugs, Antifa? They all know exactly what they are doing and what line they are crossing. I've sympathy of the zero kind. Juliet Stevenson lookalike can stand there looking as gormless as she wants. I've got no time for it.

You really haven't understood the issue.

stuckdownahole · 18/07/2025 21:22

Yes, but we bloody warned you all when the Southport thing happened and some stupid credulous woman who believed the internet rumour that the killer was an asylum seeker lodged in a hotel, wrote "set fire to the hotels full of the bastards for all I care" and got sentenced to two and a half years in prison. She will be let out early for good behaviour because she's just some idiot who got carried away one evening and decided to give the world the benefit of her brainless opinion on Twitter. She was prosecuted under the law that is designed to deal with someone giving a hate-fuelled oration at a neo-Nazi rally.

And you all went, eurgh, horrible racist woman, she deserves to go to prison.

And now today some other wacko was sitting harmlessly by the side of the road with a sign saying that a foreign power thousands of miles away, which is currently winning a war with its neighbour by virtue of much superior military technology, is committing genocide. An opinion which is quite widely shared. And the police showed up and threatened to arrest them, under the law that is designed to deal with someone who would, say, publicly express their support for the 7/7 bombers.

It should be dawning on a few people now that we are being governed by someone who is basically a lawyer-cop. His reaction to hearing something doesn't like is to make it illegal. He's also thin-skinned and tetchy, as we can see from the number of elected representatives he expels from his own party.

And I voted for the bastard.