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to think that just because you say something about Israel and Gaza does not mean that you should be threatened with arrest under the terrorism act?

482 replies

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 18:59

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flag

She had a sign saying "Free Gaza" and "Israel is committing genocide"

She was threatened with arrest under the terrorism act because a certain group that has been deemed to be a terrorist group also share those same views - and therefore the lady was supporting a terrorist group.

In the encounter, which she filmed, one officer told her: “Mentioning freedom of Gaza, Israel, genocide, all of that all come under proscribed groups, which are terror groups that have been dictated by the government.”

He went on to say that the phrase “Free Gaza” was “supportive of Palestine Action”, adding it was an offence “to express an opinion or belief that is supportive of a proscribed organisation, namely Palestine Action is an offence under section 12(1A) of the Terrorism Act”. The officer told her she had committed that offence.

I can think of many groups who share those same beliefs. Having that belief does not mean you support that group.

A Kent police spokesperson said: “Under the Terrorism Act it is a criminal offence to carry or display items that may arouse reasonable suspicion that an individual is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation such as Palestine Action.”

Armed police threatened to arrest Kent protester for holding Palestinian flag

Officers accused Laura Murton who also had a sign saying ‘Free Gaza’ of supporting a proscribed organisation

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/17/armed-police-threatened-to-arrest-kent-protester-for-holding-palestinian-flag

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cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:45

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:28

I meant cause in the sense of the thread.

It's very simple

It is illegal under Section 12 of the UK Terrorism Act to express support for a proscribed organisation.

It is not illegal under the UK Terrorism Act Section 12 to express an opinion about something.

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Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:28

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:25

You will notice I haven't expressed an opinion on a cause

I meant cause in the sense of the thread.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:25

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:23

Tbf my initial comment and response wasn't to you and it was a broader one.

But fwiw I think you've been full of hyperbole and it doesn't help your cause.

You will notice I haven't expressed an opinion on a cause

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Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:23

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:20

It's a good thing that isn't what this person did then, isn't it.

Tbf my initial comment and response wasn't to you and it was a broader one.

But fwiw I think you've been full of hyperbole and it doesn't help your cause.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:20

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:18

I didn't say that and its always possible for the police to overstep, that will come out in the wash.

But if you hold up a placard saying I support Palestinian Action in the full knowledge they are a proscribed group then I will have to go and search for my tiny violin.

It's a good thing that isn't what this person did then, isn't it.

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Dideon · 19/07/2025 10:18

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 09:30

You've already had one post, which was a personal attack, deleted, haven't you?

Maybe? Pompous, patronising, superior, belittling attitudes tend to rile people.

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 10:18

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:01

So you agree that anyone who displays a sign saying "Gaza should be free" should be arrested under the UK Terrorism Act?

I mean the Met Police don't agree with that statement as they have said "Nobody will be committing an offence by simply supporting the Palestinian cause, taking part in the march or carrying flags, banners or other signs providing they don’t stray into hate speech or other offences"

It is just possible that Kent Police got it wrong and misused their powers.

I didn't say that and its always possible for the police to overstep, that will come out in the wash.

But if you hold up a placard saying I support Palestinian Action in the full knowledge they are a proscribed group then I will have to go and search for my tiny violin.

ssd · 19/07/2025 10:10

It is a great analogy.
Thank god women like your great aunt x2 did protest enough and endured horrible treatment so we could all vote today. And thank god people have not stopped raising awareness at the carnage inflicted upon Palestine today. Even as they are called fuckwits and useful idiots and stupid by the many pro Israelis that would rather we took our focus off Gaza and directed it somewhere, anywhere, else.....and inferred we are antisemitic because we don't.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:08

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 10:06

I've already acknowledged this. You've really worn out my patience.

No you haven't

You said that the police have "The police have made it clear what would be an arrestable offence"

I gave you what the police have actually said.

Which is that showing support for the Palestinan cause is not an arrestable offence.

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Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 10:06

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:02

So no comment on the fact that the Met Police think it's ok to express support for the Palestinian cause?

I've already acknowledged this. You've really worn out my patience.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:04

Hoardasurass · 19/07/2025 10:01

Suffragettes were using bombs amongst other tactics and were considered terrorists.
My great×2 aunt was a Suffragette who went to jail and went on hunger strike and endured force feeding as terrorist for pouring water in a postbox.
You might want to choose a better analogy

It's a great analogy.

Suffragettes wanted votes for women.
They got sent to jail for using bombs.

If someone held up a sign saying "Votes for women", does that make them a terrorist?

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cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:02

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 10:01

Absolutely. I've given this thread more time than I intended. Sometimes, you can't overlook stupidity.

So no comment on the fact that the Met Police think it's ok to express support for the Palestinian cause?

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Hoardasurass · 19/07/2025 10:01

cakeorwine · 18/07/2025 19:16

Let's say there was a group that wanted to get women to have the vote and used bombings to do that.
They could have been called a terrorist organisation.

If someone had a poster saying "Votes for women", then they could be arrested by the police because they had an opinion on votes for women that is shared by a terrorist group that also wanted votes for women.

Suffragettes were using bombs amongst other tactics and were considered terrorists.
My great×2 aunt was a Suffragette who went to jail and went on hunger strike and endured force feeding as terrorist for pouring water in a postbox.
You might want to choose a better analogy

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 10:01

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 09:53

I agree.

I've never had time for the former but am growing exasperated at the bandwagon jumping Tiktok idiots who are increasingly extremist. Well when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

So you agree that anyone who displays a sign saying "Gaza should be free" should be arrested under the UK Terrorism Act?

I mean the Met Police don't agree with that statement as they have said "Nobody will be committing an offence by simply supporting the Palestinian cause, taking part in the march or carrying flags, banners or other signs providing they don’t stray into hate speech or other offences"

It is just possible that Kent Police got it wrong and misused their powers.

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Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 10:01

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 09:53

I agree.

I've never had time for the former but am growing exasperated at the bandwagon jumping Tiktok idiots who are increasingly extremist. Well when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

Absolutely. I've given this thread more time than I intended. Sometimes, you can't overlook stupidity.

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 10:00

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 09:49

The police have said:

This Saturday’s Palestine Coalition protest is the first large scale eventof its kind since the proscription of Palestine Action and I want to make sure the implications of that change in the law are fully understood.

“Nobody will be committing an offence by simply supporting the Palestinian cause, taking part in the march or carrying flags, banners or other signs providing they don’t stray into hate speech or other offences.

“However, those who see this as an opportunity to test the limits of the law by expressing support for Palestine Action, whether at a standalone protest or as part of the Palestine Coalition protest, will likely be committing an offence and will very likely be arrested.

................................................................................................

So how will the police know what is "supporting the Palestine cause" and "Expressing support for Palestine Action"

(which is what this thread is all about)

news.met.police.uk/news/met-reiterates-warning-on-support-for-proscribed-organisations-ahead-of-saturday-protests-499476

Anybody acting violently, I presume. Any chants or slogans that are prohibited, will be included. Remember Mr throatcut?

Willyoujustbequiet · 19/07/2025 09:53

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 09:24

There are two sections: those that know exactly what it means and those too stupid to know. The former, of course, will happily accommodate the latter in their naivety and misplaced good intentions. I am glad the Met are going to be all over this, today.

I agree.

I've never had time for the former but am growing exasperated at the bandwagon jumping Tiktok idiots who are increasingly extremist. Well when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 09:51

And this does sound like a threat from the police

“I would urge those people to consider the seriousness of being arrested under the Terrorism Act and the very real long term implications – from travel, to employment, to finances – that such an arrest is likely to have for their future.

Nobody will be committing an offence by simply supporting the Palestinian cause, taking part in the march or carrying flags, banners or other signs providing they don’t stray into hate speech or other offences.

“However, those who see this as an opportunity to test the limits of the law by expressing support for Palestine Action, whether at a standalone protest or as part of the Palestine Coalition protest, will likely be committing an offence and will very likely be arrested.

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CowboyFromHell · 19/07/2025 09:51

Whereismyjoiedevivre · 18/07/2025 19:25

@Dangermoo So what are ordinary citizens who are appalled by what they see happening in Gaza supposed to do? Why can’t they express their outrage at the genocide?

They should absolutely be free to express their outrage at what is happening in Gaza.

However I’d also strongly recommend that they have a really hard honest think about why they’re motivated to express outrage and concentrate their anger on this one particular conflict. The world is full of horrible conflicts, suffering and unfairness.

So, why is Gaza the one conflict that has galvanised them in this way?

Coolasfeck · 19/07/2025 09:50

It’s almost as though they are trying to remove the name Gaza from public discourse altogether in the hope everyone will forget it. It’s quite sinister.

I pray enough Palestinians remain alive by the time the current American administration changes. There will have to be a recalibration of sanity and fairness as the the majority of ordinary people across the world and increasingly in America can see this isn’t right but the penalties for saying so are currently very severe.

Coolasfeck · 19/07/2025 09:50

Letterasaurus · 18/07/2025 21:18

Is the person in that Guardian pic a man?

I’m pretty certain the person in the pic is trans (Apols if I’m wrong), however, that doesn’t take away from the fact that the scope of terrorism has apparently widened to include holding a sign saying ‘Free Gaza’.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 09:49

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 09:45

The police have made it clear what would be an arrestable offence. Since 7/10, they've had to police huge protests taking away attention to crimes relevant in the UK. This inevitably is going to lead to tension and often police mishandling. I do think this selective outrage of police misconduct is amusing. I seem to recall Tommy Robinson's arrest for presence within the vicinity of a protest, to be celebrated on here. It turned out the police were wrong. Funny that.

The police have said:

This Saturday’s Palestine Coalition protest is the first large scale eventof its kind since the proscription of Palestine Action and I want to make sure the implications of that change in the law are fully understood.

“Nobody will be committing an offence by simply supporting the Palestinian cause, taking part in the march or carrying flags, banners or other signs providing they don’t stray into hate speech or other offences.

“However, those who see this as an opportunity to test the limits of the law by expressing support for Palestine Action, whether at a standalone protest or as part of the Palestine Coalition protest, will likely be committing an offence and will very likely be arrested.

................................................................................................

So how will the police know what is "supporting the Palestine cause" and "Expressing support for Palestine Action"

(which is what this thread is all about)

news.met.police.uk/news/met-reiterates-warning-on-support-for-proscribed-organisations-ahead-of-saturday-protests-499476

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TankFlyBossW4lk · 19/07/2025 09:46

Dangermoo · 18/07/2025 20:10

The law says it does. Why aren't you understanding that? It doesn't matter whether you think it's fair or not. Laws are there to govern conduct.

Really? You are ok with this?

So you presumably know that the German government passed laws in the 1930s that made it illegal for "non Aryans" to be employed in the civil service, then in healthcare and eventually limited the number in school because they were "worried about overcrowding".

You are happy with the US passing laws now that make it ok for their own citizens to be taken off the streets and incarcerated or deported?

If you think it's ok to support these laws then I point you to the Neimoller poem; First They Came.

I guess and get that you are feeling persecuted, but really all of us are in the same boat. Populations don't win under authoritarianism.

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 09:45

pointythings · 19/07/2025 09:39

What, by protesting? That is a legal right we have, because we live in a democratic country that has freedom of speech. The police are going to have to deal with the complexities that brings. Are you really saying you are in favour of not allowing people to protest? That would be very authoritarian of you.

The police have made it clear what would be an arrestable offence. Since 7/10, they've had to police huge protests taking away attention to crimes relevant in the UK. This inevitably is going to lead to tension and often police mishandling. I do think this selective outrage of police misconduct is amusing. I seem to recall Tommy Robinson's arrest for presence within the vicinity of a protest, to be celebrated on here. It turned out the police were wrong. Funny that.

cakeorwine · 19/07/2025 09:41

Dangermoo · 19/07/2025 09:35

I really should have learned posters' intentions from the Kneecap thread. It's all too obvious.

"Tell us who you are or we will use the UK Terrorism Act to arrest you"

Do you want to live in such a country?

I don't really think you believe that anyone who expresses an opinion on Gaza should be arrested under the UK Terrorism Act as a potential terrorist.

It is just possible that the police misused their powers, misunderstood the law and used the law to threaten someone with arrest unless they told them their details.

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