AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

No she did not imply that at all. That’s you putting your narrative into her mouth.

Diane Abbott has had a lifetime of racism. She owes a grand total of zero to zero people with regards to her anti racism credentials- least of all a pair of randomers on MumsNet. I at least can recognise that.

I hear that it upsets you that Diane Abbott sees differences between the racism she experiences daily, and the awfulness that is antisemitism.
You want her to deprioritize her own lived experience to accept the orthodoxy you insist she must have to avoid your smearing her. It’s a form of Do what I tell you … or else. Can you see why it might look a bit same old same old to her. Perhaps you could reflect and ask yourself why it is about (a black woman voicing her own opinion different to yours) her that makes you feel so so upset.

And BTW, I’ve read enough Hannah Arendt to know that for all her mighty intellect, and insight into how humans commit atrocities, she didn’t like black people much.

Anyway, if you want to get one snide little comment in, please go ahead. I am leaving the thread now and won’t be returning.

No she did not imply that at all. That’s you putting your narrative into her mouth.

Diane Abbott has had a lifetime of racism. She owes a grand total of zero to zero people with regards to her anti racism credentials- least of all a pair of randomers on MumsNet. I at least can recognise that.

I hear that it upsets you that Diane Abbott sees differences between the racism she experiences daily, and the awfulness that is antisemitism.
You want her to deprioritize her own lived experience to accept the orthodoxy you insist she must have to avoid your smearing her. It’s a form of Do what I tell you … or else. Can you see why it might look a bit same old same old to her. Perhaps you could reflect and ask yourself why it is about (a black woman voicing her own opinion different to yours) her that makes you feel so so upset.

And BTW, I’ve read enough Hannah Arendt to know that for all her mighty intellect, and insight into how humans commit atrocities, she didn’t like black people much.

Anyway, if you want to get one snide little comment in, please go ahead. I am leaving the thread now and won’t be returning.

Is that the best you can do - an ad hominem? Critiquing the tone or style isn’t a rebuttal. If it makes you feel better to imply my style is pretentious, racist or performative, go ahead.

So, I sound like ChatGPT just because you dislike what I said? Also, I’m not sure why you brought Travellers into this. I haven’t directly spoken about them. Are you a Traveller yourself? My earlier point was about how visibility impacts experiences of racism. It’s interesting how some people seem to think they have a monopoly on recognising racism.

@lavenderflower it's courteous to respond to posters, not just to throw out a blanket statement. As much as you refuse to be accused of antisemitism, I will continue to speak out, when I see it.

It sounds like it is written by ChatGPT, and is a long hand way of saying 'I don't believe in racism against Jews and travellers'.

The irony is that the @Lavenderflower is saying that anti-black racism is downplayed, while downplaying other forms of racism, is somewhat lost on them, despite their 'intellectual' response. Oh dear.

I’ve received a lot of notifications and can’t respond to everyone individually. However, I did notice one commenter suggesting that I need to “listen to Jewish people and have empathy.” It’s quite possible that this was an attempt to imply I’m antisemitic. I have never denied or minimised the Jewish experience, nor do I require a lesson in antisemitism. I am fully aware of it and deeply familiar with the history of oppression faced by my own ancestors. In the same vein, I do not claim expertise on the Jewish experience. I can only speak from my lived reality as someone who is visibly and identifiably mixed race, I’m speaking from my own standpoint, as someone who is visibly mixed race and experiences the world through that lens.

I will not be bullied, shamed, or accused of antisemitism simply for holding a different worldview. To those urging me to “listen, respectfully, I think it’s important to bring the same energy to all forms of racism and prejudice. Your experience of racism is not more valid or more important than mine or anyone else’s. To those who demands support and solidarity - this requires mutual understanding and accountability not one-sided expectations.

Labelling a comment as “word salad” or dismissing it as overly intellectual without engaging with its actual content undermines meaningful dialogue. If there are specific points you take issue with, it’s more constructive to critique them directly rather than resort to personal or rhetorical dismissals.

From what I’ve seen in media coverage of this controversy, many commentators appear to support Diane Abbott’s broader point. I agree with Rachel Johnson’s (Journalist) observation that something deeper and more troubling may be at play here. It increasingly feels like discussions of racism are only deemed legitimate when they centre on antisemitism, while other forms especially anti-black racism is downplayed or silenced. It seems at the moment; Jewish Antisemitism is the only protected form of racism that can be discussed. It seems that the Labour Party only represents and support certain people.

Tbf you do sound like you're trying to write a particularly impressive A level essay. Maybe if you wrote in a way that was a bit more accessible and a bit less flowery, you wouldn't have to impress on everyone else that you are Not A Racist?

If you read the comment in full, you would understand that she is implying that Jewish people cannot, and have not experienced racism. This is racist. Refusing to listen to minorities and their liver experiences, and selectively quoting history is deeply problematic.

You are a racist if you agree with this.

DA is welcome to talk about her own lived experiences, no one would criticise her for that. I am of course against racism in all forms, but it seems like you are not, ergo, you are a racist @ForrinMummy

There is still time for you to reflect and learn. People do change, and you can. I suggest reading accounts from Jews and travellers, their lived experiences, and opening some history books. Minds, like books, can only work if they are open.

It sounded pretty plain English to me . Maybe exercise your brain a bit? These aren’t simple concepts and theres only so much a person can do to simplify them for you

It sounds like it is written by ChatGPT, and is a long hand way of saying 'I don't believe in racism against Jews and travellers'.

The irony is that the @Lavenderflower is saying that anti-black racism is downplayed, while downplaying other forms of racism, is somewhat lost on them, despite their 'intellectual' response. Oh dear.

Tbf you do sound like you're trying to write a particularly impressive A level essay. Maybe if you wrote in a way that was a bit more accessible and a bit less flowery, you wouldn't have to impress on everyone else that you are Not A Racist?

Tbf you do sound like you're trying to write a particularly impressive A level essay. Maybe if you wrote in a way that was a bit more accessible and a bit less flowery, you wouldn't have to impress on everyone else that you are Not A Racist?

As I have already said for me the sentence preceding that: They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. demonstrates (a) that she knows Jewish people experience prejudice and (b) that others use the words prejudice and racism synonymously (c) she doesn’t, because of the reasons she goes on to explain.

Do you think she deserves the racist attacks on her? You’re certainly giving off the vibe that you are angry she didn’t make the racism she encounters all about you.

Sorry I was talking to the person grilling me! I can see it might have looked otherwise, my bad

I’ve received a lot of notifications and can’t respond to everyone individually. However, I did notice one commenter suggesting that I need to “listen to Jewish people and have empathy.” It’s quite possible that this was an attempt to imply I’m antisemitic. I have never denied or minimised the Jewish experience, nor do I require a lesson in antisemitism. I am fully aware of it and deeply familiar with the history of oppression faced by my own ancestors. In the same vein, I do not claim expertise on the Jewish experience. I can only speak from my lived reality as someone who is visibly and identifiably mixed race, I’m speaking from my own standpoint, as someone who is visibly mixed race and experiences the world through that lens.

I will not be bullied, shamed, or accused of antisemitism simply for holding a different worldview. To those urging me to “listen, respectfully, I think it’s important to bring the same energy to all forms of racism and prejudice. Your experience of racism is not more valid or more important than mine or anyone else’s. To those who demands support and solidarity - this requires mutual understanding and accountability not one-sided expectations.

Labelling a comment as “word salad” or dismissing it as overly intellectual without engaging with its actual content undermines meaningful dialogue. If there are specific points you take issue with, it’s more constructive to critique them directly rather than resort to personal or rhetorical dismissals.

From what I’ve seen in media coverage of this controversy, many commentators appear to support Diane Abbott’s broader point. I agree with Rachel Johnson’s (Journalist) observation that something deeper and more troubling may be at play here. It increasingly feels like discussions of racism are only deemed legitimate when they centre on antisemitism, while other forms especially anti-black racism is downplayed or silenced. It seems at the moment; Jewish Antisemitism is the only protected form of racism that can be discussed. It seems that the Labour Party only represents and support certain people.

Agreeing that 'Jewish people and travellers cannot experience racism' and denigrating the lived experiences of those from these minorities makes you a racist.

At least wear your racist card with pride.

Either you are so ignorant that you do not understand her comments, or you are truly a vile racist. Which is it?

If I was you I would reflect and learn. Anything else makes you look like a fool. I have no time for 'people' like you.

She said this right? Or did she say something else?

“Clearly, there must be a difference between racism which is about colour and other types of racism because you can see a Traveller or a Jewish person walking down the street, you don’t know.
“I just think that it’s silly to try and claim that racism which is about skin colour is the same as other types of racism. I don’t know why people would say that.”

I think people will read the thread and draw their own conclusions as to whether Diane Abbott is appropriating the Holocaust or you are appropriating her experiences of racism as a black woman.