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AIBU?

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AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

808 replies

Elephantiner · 17/07/2025 14:18

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

OP posts:
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16
nomas · 20/07/2025 21:59

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:44

Fair enough.

The irritating thing about Diane Abbott - to me, at the time - was that she pretended her choice was between sending her son to private school or him being dragged into a gang lifestyle. As if he wasn't always going to lead a life of privilege. As if the only option for state educated black boys in Hackney 20 years ago was to join a gang. Such low expectations. It's hardly surprising that people point out he has got a criminal record, that he was arrested for assaulting emergency workers, because she made such a song and dance about him needing an expensive private education. This instance, in my view, is all about the context.

Actually the other annoying thing is that Abbott attempts to sow such division when she represents the borough of Hackney. My Hackney childhood was the best you could hope for because all our neighbours were from all over the world. People knew each other, they helped and supported each other. Nobody played Oppression Olympics, nobody denigrated each other's experiences like Abbott does. It was truly a melting pot of people getting on. She is just so tone deaf in her continued attempts to pit people against each other when the Hackney of my childhood and youth couldn't have been further away from that standpoint.

Do we know what schooling options she had at the time? I’m not familiar with Hackney so can’t comment.

Her son got 11 A*s and was fast tracked an a graduate through the diplomatic division. He is now in a good career and also a consultant for a charity helping black women.

In the 2022-2023 academic year, just 4.9% of students from the Black Caribbean ethnic group achieved at least 3 A grades or better at A level, which was the lowest percentage among all ethnic groups except for Irish Traveller and Gypsy/Roma.

In GCSEs, 59% of Black pupils achieved a standard pass (grades 9-4) in English and Maths combined in 2018-2019, which was the lowest rate among all major ethnic groups.

I can’t blame her prioritising her son over other people’s opinions.

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 21:55

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:39

I agree all forms of racism are bad. I’ve been subject to racism, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, black, white, Asian, Muslim, Jewish, Travellers.

And no one’s experience should be diminished.

We come back to the point about systemic, structural and institutional racism that black people face.

Then we can agree that we shouldn't be comparing different forms of racism, and can acknowledge that other groups have suffered from systemic, institutional racism, as well?

Unfortunately there are many posters here who have diminished others' lived experiences, and their ethnic group's historical experience of racism. Competition over who has 'suffered most' is counterproductive.

Oshio · 20/07/2025 21:49

Frummie · 20/07/2025 17:20

I wasn't 'grilling' you. I merely expressed skepticism at the claim he couldn't eat the baklava because he keeps kosher, when he'd just eaten non-kosher chicken.

What do you know, it turns out he doesn't actually keep kosher at all.

I'd hazard a guess that he hasn't actually undergone an Orthodox conversion either. So no more a Jew than a transwoman is a woman.

So your reaction to a young person dealing with fear of antisemitism is to tell them you don't think they're a real Jew anyway?

You have serious problems.

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:44

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:30

Yep that was me. No one else objected.

Fair enough.

The irritating thing about Diane Abbott - to me, at the time - was that she pretended her choice was between sending her son to private school or him being dragged into a gang lifestyle. As if he wasn't always going to lead a life of privilege. As if the only option for state educated black boys in Hackney 20 years ago was to join a gang. Such low expectations. It's hardly surprising that people point out he has got a criminal record, that he was arrested for assaulting emergency workers, because she made such a song and dance about him needing an expensive private education. This instance, in my view, is all about the context.

Actually the other annoying thing is that Abbott attempts to sow such division when she represents the borough of Hackney. My Hackney childhood was the best you could hope for because all our neighbours were from all over the world. People knew each other, they helped and supported each other. Nobody played Oppression Olympics, nobody denigrated each other's experiences like Abbott does. It was truly a melting pot of people getting on. She is just so tone deaf in her continued attempts to pit people against each other when the Hackney of my childhood and youth couldn't have been further away from that standpoint.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:39

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 21:34

She didn't talk about the lack of allyship, she diminished the experiences of other minorities.

Once again, why can we agree that all forms of racism are bad, and that trying to construct a hierarchy of racism, or to diminish the experiences of certain minorities, is counter productive? It's really simple.

I agree all forms of racism are bad. I’ve been subject to racism, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, black, white, Asian, Muslim, Jewish, Travellers.

And no one’s experience should be diminished.

We come back to the point about systemic, structural and institutional racism that black people face.

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 21:34

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:06

If she can’t see any allyship, why can’t she say that? I see no allyship on this thread, by anyone.

And just because she has a different opinion, that doesn’t make her a bot.

She didn't talk about the lack of allyship, she diminished the experiences of other minorities.

Once again, why can we agree that all forms of racism are bad, and that trying to construct a hierarchy of racism, or to diminish the experiences of certain minorities, is counter productive? It's really simple.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:30

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:22

Someone did object to the comment about Abbott's son (though I concede it could have been you - being an ally doesn't really encompass that though).

I didn't see the other two comments. But I did see people say they'd spent a lifetime going on marches, writing to their MPs and challenging racism. I myself attempted to explain my view of a non-racist, fair society and how I believe Abbott's comments aren't conducive to creating such a society. It's all in there.

Yep that was me. No one else objected.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:28

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 20:33

Interesting that you’re making things up.

So why the attack on James Abbott Thompson?

There is no suggestion he is doing crystal meth. LinkedIn says he’s a consultant at Heward Mills and a Strategy Consultant at Protect Black Women.

SharonEllis · 20/07/2025 21:24

All this talk of allyship is disingenuous. @Lavenderflower said herself 'I would never align myself with or attempt to form an alliance with the Jewish community. I think everyone needs to advocate and fight their own battles.'

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:23

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:21

The racism against black people isn’t even an undertone.

Edited

Nor is the racism against anyone else! In that sense this is an equal opportunities thread.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 21:22

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:21

The racism against black people isn’t even an undertone.

Edited

No I'm not referring to that.

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:22

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:13

Any examples?

No one objected to black people like being victims.

No one objected to the attack on DA’s son.

No one objected to conflation of Muslims with rapists.

Edited

Someone did object to the comment about Abbott's son (though I concede it could have been you - being an ally doesn't really encompass that though).

I didn't see the other two comments. But I did see people say they'd spent a lifetime going on marches, writing to their MPs and challenging racism. I myself attempted to explain my view of a non-racist, fair society and how I believe Abbott's comments aren't conducive to creating such a society. It's all in there.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:21

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 21:20

The undertones became more obvious after the first few posts. Always ease themselves in gently.

The racism against black people isn’t even an undertone.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 21:20

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:12

Then you need to look a bit closer.

The undertones became more obvious after the first few posts. Always ease themselves in gently.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:13

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:12

Then you need to look a bit closer.

Any examples?

No one objected to black people like being victims.

No one objected to the attack on DA’s son.

No one objected to conflation of Muslims with rapists.

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 21:12

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:06

If she can’t see any allyship, why can’t she say that? I see no allyship on this thread, by anyone.

And just because she has a different opinion, that doesn’t make her a bot.

Then you need to look a bit closer.

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:08

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 20:37

I believe the right honourable lady herself once said white people love playing divide and rule. Could that be deemed racism out of interest?

Divide and rule was a successful colonial strategy. Even the encyclopaedia recognises it.

www.britannica.com/topic/divide-and-rule

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:06

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 20:37

No one here has denied the racism experienced by black or brown people. That's a fabrication of yours.

What we have said is that DA cannot talk for the experiences of other minorities, or diminish their experiences of racism.

Your bizarre language appears to try to conflate what is a very racist undertone. For this reason I wonder if you are a bot. You think you sound clever by using a thesaurus, by you sound like a racist fool.

If she can’t see any allyship, why can’t she say that? I see no allyship on this thread, by anyone.

And just because she has a different opinion, that doesn’t make her a bot.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 21:03

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 20:37

I believe the right honourable lady herself once said white people love playing divide and rule. Could that be deemed racism out of interest?

The brass neck!

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:03

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 20:37

I believe the right honourable lady herself once said white people love playing divide and rule. Could that be deemed racism out of interest?

Would you say ‘they like playing the victims’ about any other ethnic group?

nomas · 20/07/2025 21:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You really thought being patronising and superior is offering an olive branch? Bizarre.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 20:59

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 20:37

No one here has denied the racism experienced by black or brown people. That's a fabrication of yours.

What we have said is that DA cannot talk for the experiences of other minorities, or diminish their experiences of racism.

Your bizarre language appears to try to conflate what is a very racist undertone. For this reason I wonder if you are a bot. You think you sound clever by using a thesaurus, by you sound like a racist fool.

Absolutely.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 20:57

ForWittyTealOP · 20/07/2025 20:32

And no. I haven't changed my username but nice attempt to discredit what I actually have to say.

Of course you haven't changed your username. This thread has sunk to new levels of deviousness x

Longingdreamer · 20/07/2025 20:37

Lavenderflower · 20/07/2025 20:13

@ForWittyTealOP Why should I align myself or build solidarity with individuals who deny the existence of racism experienced by Black and Brown communities, simply because many of them live in areas like Hackney? That line of thinking is dismissive and reductive. Do you take me for a fool?

I may not be Black or Brown, but as someone who is visibly mixed race, I face racism based solely on how I look. Are you seriously asking me to centre people who have shown no concern for me or for others who share my experience? Do you genuinely believe your perspective is more important or your life more valuable than mine? The audacity.

I have no interest in aligning with people who discredit my views by labelling them “too flowery” or “too intellectual” just because they don't like your view point. I have no interest in people calling me a racist because I recognise that appearance influences racism. Solidarity isn’t built by making everything about yourself while dismissing other perspective that doesn't align with your world view.

Also have you changed your user name in the thread.

No one here has denied the racism experienced by black or brown people. That's a fabrication of yours.

What we have said is that DA cannot talk for the experiences of other minorities, or diminish their experiences of racism.

Your bizarre language appears to try to conflate what is a very racist undertone. For this reason I wonder if you are a bot. You think you sound clever by using a thesaurus, by you sound like a racist fool.

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 20:37

nomas · 20/07/2025 20:21

I think she’s referring to the comments people make about black people and slavery. One poster said black people like playing the victims.

I believe the right honourable lady herself once said white people love playing divide and rule. Could that be deemed racism out of interest?