AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

Why do you think I have not listened to what Jewish people have said or unaware or do not care

I agree with the points that Diane Abbott has made

Quite.

It's not for DA (or anyone else) to say what the experiences of other people are.

As a white person who hasn’t experienced this form of racism, I can’t fully understand, but I support what Diane is trying to say, that skin colour is more visible and therefore it’s likely
that racism is played out in a different way.

Being a white Jew does not equate to safety as being visibly Jewish can lead to anti semitism.

The truth is who really knows except those who experience it, though I empathise with Dianne’s position and anyone who has suffered racism.

It’s not helpful, though, to compare suffering, surely it’s better for all marginalised groups to work together to oppose all kinds of racism.

Strength through numbers, division only benefits those who perpetuate inequality.

I can often identify Jewish people or travellers on sight or when they start speaking or by name. I can’t see how those people would be any less discriminated against than people of colour.

But yes, white passion people probably have it easier than those that don’t, and lighter skinned people of colour probably have it easier than those with darker skin. But I don’t think it’s fair to saw Jews and travellers always have it easier than, say, black people.

But I am also loathe to get into a “my oppression is worse than yours” type of debate.

So you don’t know what it’s like to be Jewish and the experiences some people have.

Persecution for Jewish people is historically strong and you’re better off listening to what Jewish people actually say about their lives.

A pp below talks about it for a start.

Why would you conflate the experience of a British Jewish person immediately with Gaza? I’m mean, really? You can’t see the problem with that?

I thought I agreed with her. As a mixed race person who looks white I get that I have an option of avoiding racism, even if that comes with some hefty guilt so I can see a shred of a point there. There are things that happen to people because of who they visibly are (worse health outcomes, death in police custody)

But that line about Jewish people not having to sit at the back of the bus before the civil rights movement is... terrible. If the 1960s are relevant, so are the 1940s. Both cast a long shadow and I cannot get my head around her logic.

She lost me.

Perhaps a slightly less contentious way of saying the same thing; some jewish people 'look' jewish and people will assume they are jewish when they see them across the street. Some jewish people are not identifiably jewish when you see them.

These two groups of people will surely have different experiences of anti-semitism. The former might get shouted at across the street, the latter won't. That is what she is saying I think; not that antisemitism is less bad, but that some people will be less affected by it by virtue of not looking jewish.

I don’t think it is a particularly controversial opinion. I disagree with her politics but I have always quite admired Dianne Abbot. At least she isn’t scared to say what she thinks.

Yet none of this is relevant to other minorities. You're not comparing the POC experience to any other community, than the white one.

My family is Asian

I know the racism they experience and have experienced is different from what black people I know have experienced. I do not experience this (I have experienced othering confusing as a child and tedious at times)

I know my ex husbands experience being a Muslim Arab

I know that our prisons have a disproportionate number of young black men, I know a young black man is far far more likely to be stopped and searched, I know that our mh hospitals have a disproportionate number of young black people in

I agree that the expressions and actions are different but it is not only skin colour that leads to racism.

So, I think she’s describing a very different experience.

I don’t think there is an acceptable face of racism against black people any more. There is ignorance, yes, and some diehard bigots lurking in backward corners. There’s inequality of outcome but not necessarily related to being black, so much as to poverty. Poor white boys have shocking outcomes as well.

Travellers, Jews and Muslims face severe criticism that’s not easy to distinguish from racism. There are conversations all the time about the appalling behaviour of some people in these groups, that must feel very challenging if you are also Jewish, or a Muslim, or a Traveller.

I take part in those conversations and it’s really hard to tread a line around the criticism that needs to be discussed, and that which is racism.

I wouldn’t like to be a Traveller- and equally I hate the behaviour of a significant chunk of travellers.

Those conversations aren't happening about black people. So you could argue it’s the other way round.

Yes, I wondered that too. Then again, I think we are so used to it being shoehorned in. Gotta have a bit of Israel hate on a thread, ironically, about discrimination.

Not less bad, but may have a less bad impact on someone's day to day life.

So then you don't know how different minorities are impacted.

Why are you mentioning Gaza (despite claiming that you won’t) in the context of Jews experiencing racism/ antisemitism in the UK?

I agree with her but in today’s wokey cokey world we’ve all got to pretend racism is by a very naughty minority and we others just have to carry on being kind and of course not even seeing black skin- sarcasm in case anyone is wondering

I agree. In that she knows what she is talking about.

So how can you know?

No

She is right. You can’t hide your skin colour, you can’t blend in.

I see threads on here of mners saying that they’re telling their children not to say they are Jewish. You can’t do that if you’re a black person. You don’t get to hide

Are you speaking from your own experience? As a Jewish person that is

Why ?

Because she wants to talk about issues that many are not wanting to talk about or to acknowledge

Yes Diane Abbott is right

Racism and prejudice always impacts people negatively but there are different forms of racism and prejudice and negative stereotypes that is often a form of racism/prejudice.

And she should absolutely not be silenced into discussing this