AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

Racism is racism.

it’s not a competition. fFS

Diane Abbott wrote her letter to the Observer as a riposte to an article in the paper by Tomiwa Owolade* 'Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue...it is far more complex.'
The article under the sub heading 'A report on ethnic inequality reveals that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people are among the most abused', was based on an 'Evidence for Equality National Survey' carried out by academics in 2021. More than 60% of Gypsy, Traveller and Roma, 55% of Jews and 40% of Irish out of the total of 14000 surveyed, reported that they had experienced some form of racist assault. For black Caribbean people the figure was nearly 50% and black Africans more than 30%. For all Asian groups, whether South or East Asian the figure was less than for the Irish. He argues that it is too narrow to say race is black or white.
Source: https://guardian.pressreader.com/article/281728388810012

*He is a journalist who writes in various newspapers about race, education, etc and wrote a book 'This is not America'. He was born in Nigeria and is a black man.

That's why Diane Abbott fired off the letter:

' Racism is black and white
Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.
It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.'

Source: Guardian comment is free: letters. For some reason I can't paste the link. I hope posting the letter isn't in breach of copyright. I might have to remove it.

There are a lot of sneaky untruths here. @AmateurNoun she has said nothing of the sort. You are being flatly dishonest.

DA has said that black people are subject to racism in a different way, and that’s patently true. I can see that someone is Jewish or a traveller but I can see that they are black. Very much racism results from just this.

Starmer is an arse, frankly, regardless of what any of us think about DAs politics.

It was a clearly antisemitic post. Thank you for calling it out.

She was responding to this article which said that gypsy/travellers and Jewish people were amongst the most likely to say they had suffered racist abuse.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/15/racism-in-britain-is-not-a-black-and-white-issue-it-is-far-more-complicated

Diane doesn't think they can experience racism. Racism is only for people with dark skin according to Diane.

I still can't get past her comment about the buses. It's true that Jews were not being sent to the back of the bus in 1950s America, but they were being murdered in their millions here in Europe in the 1940s.

She's either a Holocaust denier or incredibly thick. Maybe both.

Yes, she’s right that people who are immediately recognisable as being of a particular race or religion (whether that’s through skin colour, or religious clothing) will experience racism differently.

But what was the context of her saying this? What point was she trying to make? I don’t think it’s a particularly useful (or insightful) point, especially on its own, but I assume there was context?

Diane is right that Jews etc were not sent to back of the bus in pre-civil rights USA, but in other countries at other times similar happenned as they were forced to be visibly different so there was no "passing German / Austrian" by having to wear a Yellow star of David at all times at being completely banned from certain jobs and businesses that is considerably beore Holocaust started.
it is possible that Jews like Nigella lawson and David Baddiel are not instantly recognised as jewish from 100 metres away, but a Jew with a kippah or tallit will be recognisable as jewish 100 metres away, of course I suppose they could not wear those items like people could not wear a hijab or turban or Sari but people should not have to hide this just because it is physically possible unlike a skin colour
though I suppose a burka and gloves could hide skin colour

I am not for a moment suggesting any of these grups should hide anything and all discrimination is wrong

She's just been suspended from the Labour Party.

Sometimes because your race isn’t actually so obvious, people lose their filters and surprisingly expose their deeply held prejudices and racism.

I was with a group of colleagues and one decided to hold forth about how he hated the Irish; how they couldn’t be trusted, were more likely to be thieves and con merchants, were work shy and not particularly intelligent as a nation.

Guess what? My parents were Irish, but being brought up in the U.K., I haven’t got an accent so I let him finish his rant, and then pointed out to him what my ancestry was. I suspect that had one of our group been black, and he had felt the same way about POC that he felt about the Irish, he would have automatically restrained himself, so being visible can work both ways too.

I think she’s absolutely right. She often is, if one bothers to look past the unconventional delivery and the relentless media hatchet job. It doesn’t cancel out the appalling bigotry faced by travellers and Jews and Eastern Europeans, but it is true that racism is different when your race is instantly visible.

Ah, so now we are sexist and racist because we disagree with her. I wondered how long that would take.

For me, it was her hypocrisy over private education for her child.
Her many achievements should not be mocked/dismissed.

I think that travelers probably experience more racism than any other group, and it goes unreported. Also anti-Semitism is huge at the moment.
I thought it was dreadfully patronising to imply that one type of racism against one group is 'worse' than another.
Why not say that any minority ethnic group can experience racism and it's a disgrace. Not trying and erase the horrendous experience of races other than her own. If anything she's racist for saying that.

I'm no fan of hers but, she's right.
The abuse she's received, and continues to receive, is appalling.

Absolutely this
Some posters are actually proving her point

A fair/white skinned person of any religious persuasion or ethnicity is unlikely to receive racism based on visual perception alone compared with someone of the same religion/ethnicity who has dark skin or wears religious dress or symbols.

For example, my Muslim friend in a hijab gets more abuse than my Muslim friend who has mousey brown hair, white skin with freckles and wears jeans and t-shirt - this is so apparent when I am with them esp around the time of 9/11. One could go out freely and the other couldn’t.
My friend of Indian heritage (but not Muslim) got abuse but my Muslim friend of fair skin received none.

It shows the idiocy of the human race.

No I do not where have I said I disbelieve other peoples experiences

I agree with Diane Abbott that how racism is directed and plays out in society is different

& I'll say it again there are lots of brown & black Jews! Diane doesn't seem to understand this. Yet more antisemitism training needed I suspect.

What on earth has a war 2000 miles away being conducted by a foreign state got to do with British Jewish people and their experience of racism in Britain? I think you need to carefully consider what you are conflating there; that somehow racism to British Jews is somehow justifiable because “Gaza”.

shes wrong and ignorant, I found the comparison to red head prejudice idiotic.

YABVU. Have you actually read the letter that she stands by? I will try and attach it.

"I'm pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote..."

But no mention of the 6m Jews killed in Europe in WW2? And they killed because of their race even if they were non-practicing. I would rather be forced to sit at the back of a bus than murdered 🤷‍♀️

She's an anti-semite and a racist like her friend Jeremy Corbyn.

Remember the thread a few weeks back, where a Jewish poster shared her experience of antisemitism? How many posters asked her how the perpetrators knew she was Jewish? Far too many.

It’s actually part of the problem to override and say someone’s experience doesn’t count, to the extent someone thinks they can declare what DA has.

Came here to say similar but you put it very well!

Here you go @HRTQueendo you disbelieve this?