AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

Because suggesting that no one can ever tell if you’re Jewish or a traveller is either ignorant or badly worded. Considering she is so highly educated, I am assuming it’s the latter.

That letter comes across as though she is specifically saying black people endure worse that others based upon instant prejudice - yet other groups do suffer from instant prejudice. She can speak on behalf of her own experiences, but to suggest that others don’t suffer from instant prejudice is utterly ridiculous.

I agree with her on this too. It’s entirely different to be prejudiced “on sight” eg due to race or sex - for one thing it must be more prevalent because any stranger can see what race/sex you are without you opening your mouth, unlike lots of travellers/Jewish people where you’d need to have disclosed this information first (although some are more visible).
I don’t think it’s anti semitic to say that however likening it to ginger haired people is bizarre and wholly inappropriate

As someone who grew up a ginger kid and then married a Jewish person and now has Jewish children, I can tell you there is no way you can compare the experience of ‘prejudice’. Being ginger doesn’t make you lie awake at night worrying about how your young children will cope with hearing about the Holocaust, about Jewish people being terrorised and murdered in neighbouring European countries, about “friends” in Facebook posting ‘Hitler was right’, about gangs driving through Jewish areas shouting shouting “Fuck their mothers, rape their daughters’ , about armed security at synagogues, drills for violent attacks at Jewish schools, terror plots in the UK on Jewish targets. (I could go on). None of those things are remotely comparable to the experience ‘prejudice’ of being ginger! It’s a ridiculously offensive. I can’t understand the people who think she’s right on this, it just seems like misplaced loyalty, or a complete lack of understanding maybe?

As a Jewish person, I have experienced racism, because of the way I look. My children have been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence in public, most recently in the past month, and my children experience constant Anti-semitic at school. Anti-Semitism is endemic in London currently, with weekly hate marches which makes the majority of zone 1 unsafe for Jews.

My family were murdered in the Holocaust for being Jewish, despite not being religious. It was down to their race. The survivors then experienced death threats and had to leave their country. They left with only the clothes on their back.

Prior to this, their relatives were murdered in pogroms.

So yes, we do experience racism.

I cannot speak for her experiences of racism , and nor can she speak for mine.

Thank you, I do see your point. And the friend I was thinking of is dark, the racist scum bag thugs in the riot, would probably think he was a bit too 'Arab looking to pass as white. I do see what you're saying.

I honestly don't believe she is antisemitic, and the irony is Jewish allies were central to the US black civil rights movement, as they found common ground.

I accept she could have articulated it much better, and as a black person, it felt she was speaking directly to me, she often does that, doesn't filter her talk for a non-black audience, lots of white MP's don't filter their talk to anyone outside of a white audience.

I think the visibility of black people during a rise in the far right ( like we are living through now) we are the most visible, when the thugs take to the streets, we are the ones they see ALWAYS, rather than SOMETIMES. And its an important point.

Thank you, I do see your point. And the friend I was thinking of is dark, the racist scum bag thugs in the riot, would probably think he was a bit too 'Arab looking to pass as white. I do see what you're saying.

I honestly don't believe she is antisemitic, and the irony is Jewish allies were central to the US black civil rights movement, as they found common ground.

I accept she could have articulated it much better, and as a black person, it felt she was speaking directly to me, she often does that, doesn't filter her talk for a non-black audience, lots of white MP's don't filter their talk to anyone outside of a white audience.

I think the visibility of black people during a rise in the far right ( like we are living through now) we are the most visible, when the thugs take to the streets, we are the ones they see ALWAYS, rather than SOMETIMES. And its an important point.

I don’t agree and hope this won’t be allowed to stand, accusing people of enjoying playing the victim when they talk about how prejudice has made them feel is always gross IMO. You can disagree with someone, strongly, without making that accusation.

I totally agree but wonder if your post will be allowed to stand x

‘Most of my Jewish friends’ but not all?

This is why people are pushing back. Because not all people experience this prejudice the same. There WILL be Jewish people who experience instant prejudice on a regular basis. So the reason why people are saying that Abbott shouldn’t say these things is that they are not true in every case.

All prejudice is wrong. And instant prejudice happens to many people, regardless of the cause. And we need to recognise that and not assume that they don’t experience it. She is assuming it because she hasn’t experienced it for herself.

She should absolutely be shouting about this issue, but not by suggesting others don’t also experience it too, that’s redactive.

As someone who grew up a ginger kid and then married a Jewish person and now has Jewish children, I can tell you there is no way you can compare the experience of ‘prejudice’. Being ginger doesn’t make you lie awake at night worrying about how your young children will cope with hearing about the Holocaust, about Jewish people being terrorised and murdered in neighbouring European countries, about “friends” in Facebook posting ‘Hitler was right’, about gangs driving through Jewish areas shouting shouting “Fuck their mothers, rape their daughters’ , about armed security at synagogues, drills for violent attacks at Jewish schools, terror plots in the UK on Jewish targets. (I could go on). None of those things are remotely comparable to the experience ‘prejudice’ of being ginger! It’s a ridiculously offensive. I can’t understand the people who think she’s right on this, it just seems like misplaced loyalty, or a complete lack of understanding maybe?

So how can you be so certain with your previous post with the ‘patently obvious’ line.

I do listen to people, it’s why I think Diane Abbott is wrong to say what she did. It looks like she’s been removed from the party again for it too.

It was a particularly obtuse comment given the Labour Party is known to have had a serious problem with antisemitism in the recent past. It is the only political party in the U.K. that has needed to be subject to an investigation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which came after it failed to respond adequately to the recommendations of its own investigation by Shami Chakrabati.

Im not sure it’s helpful to have discussions about different sorts of racism (ie between different races) unless it’s in the context of highlighting micro aggressions for example. Otherwise, the risk is people think you are implying one form of racism is worse than another.

Having been called out on this before, you think she’d have more sense than to open herself to that criticism again.

Their behaviour is grotesque and terrifying. But so is firebombing synagogues, which won’t affect you if you’re not Jewish. I don’t really understand the choice that both you and DA seem to be making to just ignore forms of persecution that don’t affect you personally. I can understand why they wouldn’t matter as much to you, but I can’t really understand why you would act as if they don’t exist.

She is right. I don't often agree with her, but she is correct on this.