AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

It literally doesn't if you read that report. It says quite clearly: British Pakistani men. Because several of the victims were Asian but not Pakistani. They weren't only white girls.

Would you like to try thinking again?

Maybe because they were South Asian? Just a thought.

I'm not Jewish, I have a Jewish grandparent and many of his family died in the Holocaust. My son converted when he was 20.

He experienced 4 hate crimes in 18 months, including being spaton by school kids, and he's had to stop wearing his kippah for his personal safety.

He can't mention that he's Jewish a lot of the time, as its likely he'll face hate in public settings.

For example we were eating in a Tunisian restaurant and he'd had some chicken, the waitress was trying to give him baclava which he couldn't eat because he keeps kosher. She kept pushing and pushinso and he was too scared to say he was kosher in a busy restaurant, so the poor boy had to put it in his mouth and then spit it out when she wasn't looking.

He's had Jewish friends physically attacked at uni. When he complained to the student union about antisemitic enails they were sending out, he was invited to leave the student union. There's many courses that are a complete no-go for him.

The ignorance here is unbelievable.

Because it says that in many different news articles and gov reports?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65174096

White girls were systemically abused and raped across the U.K. for decades by South Asian men who used them because raping girls from their own community was frowned upon

Why would you refer to them as South Asian men? Why lump all brown men in as one homogenous group? An entire subcontinent. On a thread about racism. Geez.

White girls were systemically abused and raped across the U.K. for decades by South Asian men who used them because raping girls from their own community was frowned upon

Why would you refer to them as South Asian men? Why lump all brown men in as one homogenous group? An entire subcontinent. On a thread about racism. Geez.

I’m not in a bubble. I see data, data you can draw obvious conclusions from. If we were more data driven as a society maybe we could stop all the word salad and take action to sort things. But my fear is, a lot of what you’re preaching has no tangible action because it’s feelings based.

If you have any opposing data you’d like to bring to the front then by all means; I’d love to see it and what we can do as a society to adjust it.

I'm not Jewish, I have a Jewish grandparent and many of his family died in the Holocaust. My son converted when he was 20.

He experienced 4 hate crimes in 18 months, including being spaton by school kids, and he's had to stop wearing his kippah for his personal safety.

He can't mention that he's Jewish a lot of the time, as its likely he'll face hate in public settings.

For example we were eating in a Tunisian restaurant and he'd had some chicken, the waitress was trying to give him baclava which he couldn't eat because he keeps kosher. She kept pushing and pushinso and he was too scared to say he was kosher in a busy restaurant, so the poor boy had to put it in his mouth and then spit it out when she wasn't looking.

He's had Jewish friends physically attacked at uni. When he complained to the student union about antisemitic enails they were sending out, he was invited to leave the student union. There's many courses that are a complete no-go for him.

The ignorance here is unbelievable.

Ah, ‘data’ - the favourite word when convenient facts suit you, but inconvenient truths become ‘narratives.’

Patterns don’t need your permission to exist, and recognising systemic racism isn’t about ‘worthiness’ - it’s about reality. Maybe try stepping outside your ideological bubble sometime.

It's not all it's cracked up to be, being a Jew who doesn't look 'obviously Jewish'. There's always a constant balancing act between revealing my real self and keeping my family safe, especially now. It feels similar to 'coming out' as gay - if you don't, it erases an important part of you, if you do it can lay you open to cruelty and sadly reveal that friendly neighbours, acquaintances, work colleagues etc only wanted to befriend a false, partial version of you.

I know lots of people don't get it. Thank you sincerely to those on this thread that do seem to. Maybe it's because others really do see it like a costume I can take on and off? Eg when expressing concerns to friends about my young child possibly encountering antisemitism at school I was given the well meaning suggestion that we "just don't have to tell anyone we're Jewish". Which would effectively be asking a five year old to tell a lie I doubt an adult could sustain. What are you doing for christmas? (Going to Limmud!) Why did you get presents at a different time? (We celebrate Hanukkah actually!) You're out of school on a weekday in September where did you go? (To synagogue for Rosh Hashana with my family!) It's impossible. But that is what a dear old friend genuinely suggested before I pointed out the obvious flaws.

They would never have suggested that eg if I had a same sex partner I should just never hold hands with them or put up wedding pictures on Facebook in case I invited homophobia on myself. That line of thinking has rightly died a death in this country. Gone are the days where you were expected not to 'do what you liked in the house but not do it in the street and frighten the horses'. We have Pride now. The same is not really true if you're Jewish.

We rightly don't compare racism and homophobia. (Hey, which one is worse?! What if you're affected by both, which stings more, what a pointless question?) I'd bloody love it if antisemitism was actually taken seriously by the left in this country, as seriously as homophobia. Being Jewish is not a costume, it is not comparable to having red hair and there is a deep, deep history of atrocities against our people to show that. Travellers are being put into a very similar position by this harmful and polarising rhetoric. It needs to stop

I agree with what you say, but find it hard to believe that Pakistan would shame the perpetrators. This is a country who until very recently when introducing a new law, allowed the sexual exploitation of children by allowing men to marry children. The behaviour of these men in Rotherham was not only racist but also sexist - having absolutely no respect for women at all.

The term “doesn’t fit my narrative” is strange. It’s not a narrative, it’s a pattern of behaviour by a certain demographic. That’s data, not a narrative.

The fact you think any presentation of racism that doesn’t affect the minority you deem the most worthy is being used as a shield, says a lot about your unwillingness to see anything past your own ideological view.

Yes, the gaslighting really is disgusting; good job we aren't easily scared away from standing by our points. I don't care for bullies and arrogant ones, at that. There's some bad faith posting going on here.

No one’s disputing the horrific abuse those girls endured or the institutional failures behind it. If anything, pretending otherwise would be willful ignorance.

But if complexity feels like ‘gaslighting’ to you, maybe it’s not the conversation that’s broken — maybe it’s the willingness to accept nuance.

Intersectionality isn’t a dodge; it’s the only way to make sense of how different oppressions operate simultaneously.

Wanting to ‘get back to the main topic’ is fair — but dismissing uncomfortable truths about systemic racism just because they don’t fit your narrative isn’t helpful. Those survivors deserve more than selective outrage.

I agree with what you say, but find it hard to believe that Pakistan would shame the perpetrators. This is a country who until very recently when introducing a new law, allowed the sexual exploitation of children by allowing men to marry children. The behaviour of these men in Rotherham was not only racist but also sexist - having absolutely no respect for women at all.

This, all day long. People who talk about systemic racism and only in one direction vs inter-personal racism are often trying to excuse group failure imo.

I don’t need to talk about all that. Don’t mistake my bluntness here for lack of awareness or intelligence. I believe in intersectionality but sometimes it can be an evasive tactic for uncomfortable facts.

White girls were systemically abused and raped across the U.K. for decades by South Asian men who used them because raping girls from their own community was frowned upon. The ‘men’ (I wish we’d stipulate the demographics of men in VAWG) cannot be deported back to their country of origin (Pakistan) as even Pakistan have said they’d essentially be shamed out of their community or killed as it’s so shameful.

Because of the perpetrators race this was covered up by many of our institutions and has been admitted in many Gov reports now.

I’d like to get back to the main topic but the gaslighting around this subject / ignorance of obvious pattern recognition does the survivors a real disservice.

I don’t need to talk about all that. Don’t mistake my bluntness here for lack of awareness or intelligence. I believe in intersectionality but sometimes it can be an evasive tactic for uncomfortable facts.

White girls were systemically abused and raped across the U.K. for decades by South Asian men who used them because raping girls from their own community was frowned upon. The ‘men’ (I wish we’d stipulate the demographics of men in VAWG) cannot be deported back to their country of origin (Pakistan) as even Pakistan have said they’d essentially be shamed out of their community or killed as it’s so shameful.

Because of the perpetrators race this was covered up by many of our institutions and has been admitted in many Gov reports now.

I’d like to get back to the main topic but the gaslighting around this subject / ignorance of obvious pattern recognition does the survivors a real disservice.