AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

@nomasI do understand what systemic means. If a culture is in place where raped girls get arrested, instead of protected, when found abused, naked and drunk in the company of men decades older than them, when police and social services and councils consistently criminalise these girls and their families instead of the perpetrators; I would say that is systemic.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that anyone on this thread has said anti-semitism or other racism doesn’t exist?

No one has said that.

It’s possible to see the black community as the most targeted and disenfranchised and as the victims of structural, institutional and systemic racism AND know that racism toward Jews, Muslims, Asians exists as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

But the reality is that the risk of exposure to it for the relevant community and the racist attitudes spike or decrease depending on what is happening at any given time.

I don't think this is true.

Black people are always the most targeted in stop and search.

Black people are 16 times more likely to be prosecuted under joint enterprise than white people.

Black students in some contexts face disproportionately high rates of poverty, discrimination, and systemic inequalities.

I'm not black but even I can see that the racism against black people is consistent and systemic beyond what any other community (including my own) experience.

Where have I said that?

I’m asking if reading posts from Jewish posters makes you adjust your view on Diane Abbott being right as you poster earlier.

I’m wondering how you and Abbott know what the experience is for a Jewish person.

Are you seriously trying to pretend that anyone on this thread has said anti-semitism or other racism doesn’t exist?

No one has said that.

It’s possible to see the black community as the most targeted and disenfranchised and as the victims of structural, institutional and systemic racism AND know that racism toward Jews, Muslims, Asians exists as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Here you go @nomas does it alter your earlier view at all?

As a Jewish person, I have experienced racism, because of the way I look. My children have been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence in public, most recently in the past month, and my children experience constant Anti-semitic at school. Anti-Semitism is endemic in London currently, with weekly hate marches which makes the majority of zone 1 unsafe for Jews.

My family were murdered in the Holocaust for being Jewish, despite not being religious. It was down to their race. The survivors then experienced death threats and had to leave their country. They left with only the clothes on their back.

Prior to this, their relatives were murdered in pogroms.

So yes, we do experience racism.

I cannot speak for her experiences of racism , and nor can she speak for mine.

You stand by what you said?

You may think there is no hierarchy of racism, but your deleted comment is the most racist comment on this thread. And says something telling about you and the poster who agreed with you. Disgusting.

She was wrong and as she represents Hackney, home to London’s community of Hasidic Jews, who ARE instantly recognisable as Jews, and in the current awful antisemitic climate, she was disgustingly wrong.
And to ignore the Holocaust in her letter only a decade earlier, talking about Black people’s treatment in 50’s America, is pretty unforgivable.

Re: rape of white girls and systemic racism. The police and council seemed to be in the pockets of the rapists; some were also in positions of local power themselves. So I think they created their own anti-white system which operated outside of our own laws and systems.

She was wrong and as she represents Hackney, home to London’s community of Hasidic Jews, who ARE instantly recognisable as Jews, and in the current awful antisemitic climate, she was disgustingly wrong.
And to ignore the Holocaust in her letter only a decade earlier, talking about Black people’s treatment in 50’s America, is pretty unforgivable.

Re: rape of white girls and systemic racism. The police and council seemed to be in the pockets of the rapists; some were also in positions of local power themselves. So I think they created their own anti-white system which operated outside of our own laws and systems.

All racism is abhorrent and all races are capable of being racist to other races. Diane Abbott clearly apologised in the past only in order to be able to stand as Labour Party candidate in the last GE. She's a liar because she's now backtracked on her apology and doubled down on her original comments. Having done and achieved so much as a black woman in politics this is a sad end to her career.

You are definitely right about that, nomas.

I experience racism directly so I don't need your patronising comments.

But I still have eyes and ears and can see what's happening around me and I know that black people experience racism systemically on a level that no other community does, including my own.

I experience racism directly so I don't need your patronising comments.

But I still have eyes and ears and can see what's happening around me and I know that black people experience racism systemically on a level that no other community does, including my own.

The way I read it is that you understand racism against black people but not other kinds of racism. It is clear that there is a lack of understanding about eg antisemitism from reading your post. Always good to understand one's biases and lack of knowledge.

Did you read @Longingdreamerpost?

But the reality is that the risk of exposure to it for the relevant community and the racist attitudes spike or decrease depending on what is happening at any given time.

I don't think this is true.

Black people are always the most targeted in stop and search.

Black people are 16 times more likely to be prosecuted under joint enterprise than white people.

Black students in some contexts face disproportionately high rates of poverty, discrimination, and systemic inequalities.

I'm not black but even I can see that the racism against black people is consistent and systemic beyond what any other community (including my own) experience.

But the reality is that the risk of exposure to it for the relevant community and the racist attitudes spike or decrease depending on what is happening at any given time.

I don't think this is true.

Black people are always the most targeted in stop and search.

Black people are 16 times more likely to be prosecuted under joint enterprise than white people.

Black students in some contexts face disproportionately high rates of poverty, discrimination, and systemic inequalities.

I'm not black but even I can see that the racism against black people is consistent and systemic beyond what any other community (including my own) experience.