AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

I initially didn't bother responding to this as it seemed like pointless grilling. As I said, I am not Jewish, my son is. I used the wrong word, because I am not Jewish.

What I meant was, he follows the rules of not eating meat and dairy within a few hours of one another.

He isn't actually kosher because he vant practically be. The rest of the family are not Jewish, and he shares a kitchen at university halls. Oh, and there's absolutely no kosher food options available to him at university.

The point is that due to religious observation he does NOT eat dairy if he's had meat. Ever!!!!

I honestly think I treat people consistently and respectfully and in my mind I resist prejudice and I argue against the prejudice I meet. in my area, racism towards travellers is still broadly seen as acceptable and many people casually refer to those communities as p- word and I do call it out. I would be horrified to learn that anyone found me treating them with prejudice or discriminating against them (on any grounds other than a track record of behaving like a knob or worse).

i think where my view is formed is in knowing several people, and being aware of several well-known people without knowing that they are Jewish or of Traveller heritage. Oliver Letwin is one, because someone referred to him as a pig a number of years ago and I had had no idea that he was Jewish. The story was bigger than a simple insult because of the insult chosen, but I hadn’t been aware of it and so hadn’t been aware that it was worse than the pig jokes which were made about David Cameron when a certain news story broke. I had a French boyfriend once and asked him if it was usual in France to be circumcised; I hadn’t known he was of Jewish origin, but it didn’t make any difference to my feelings or our relationship.

I apologise for my lack of awareness and my continuing lack of understanding.

. I believe that most people are aware that police in America kill a number a unarmed black people each year. Does this sort of thing happen to Jewish people?

The number of people killed or injured by Jewish people is fairly low in both the US and the UK, and by no coincidence the number of police shooting of unarmed Jews is small. Similarly with Hindus and Chinese.

By percentage of interactions with law enforcement, black people in USA are far less likely to be killed by police officers than white people. That's just a fact.

Luckily, more arrests for hate crimes will be made, particularly in light of PAG now being a proscribed terrorist group. Great result that was. Well done Yvette Cooper. 👏

Anyone can decide to keep kosher or not, and it's not for me to tell them what to do. Where I can give my factual opinion is whether something is objectively kosher.

Eating chicken in a Tunisian restaurant, even if it's halal, is not consistent with the claim that you're keeping kosher. Unless the chicken was slaughtered by a qualified shochet, then salted in the required manner, then cooked by a Jew in a kosher pot, that chicken isn't kosher. That's all I'm saying.

@Oshio You’re absolutely spot on.

Sadly, it currently seems that every Jewish person - wherever they live or however tenuous their personal connection is with political/military decisions being made in Israel - seems to be fair game for abuse and confrontation. The baying mobs outside London synagogues for example, have been appalling and quite terrifying.

Presumably it was halal which some eaters of kosher food will accept. Again, you are arguing with someone's food choices. Do you usually not accept what a person says they will or will not eat, or is it just because the person in question is Jewish?

I feel a bit like people are not comprehending this.

Muslims and Jews or travellers should not need to take steps to hide their identity to get a job or ride a bis safelt, nor need to state their political views to be accepted.

Jewish people need security at their schools and synagogues. I think mosques have needed similar.

Jews all over the country have to experience discrimination in workplaces, key organisations such as their unions where they are supposed to find support. I assume Muslims experience the same.

My son was entirely ostracised at university because he refused to go along with antisemitism. He was told to leave his student union if he complained about antisemitic emails. There is absolutely no way he could attend certain classes, such as international relations because he would be required to accept the antisemitic world view that's taken to be the only norm.

Jewish people are having their business boycotted, they're getting book signings cancelled, their concerts cancelled.

If you don't think the racism to Jews, Muslims amd other groups is systemic, structural and institutional then your eyes are shut.

I guarantee you if a Black university student wrote to their student union complaining about anti black racism in emails from the official account, they would 100% NOT be invited to leave the union if they didn't like it.

Well I think this just about reflects the ignorance of this thread and Abbot.

Which is an interesting point in itself, as according to NHS data taken in March 2024, almost half of the doctors and consultants (47.5%) and more than a third of nurses, midwives, and health visitors (33.6%) are from a Black or Minority Ethnic (BME) background.
It begs the question then, why and who is responsible for black mothers receiving worse maternity care?

Racism isn’t only committed by white people against people of colour. Sadly, there’s inherent bias, suspicion and distrust across the board by all races against other races. Diana Abbott makes these statements because she is very conscious of and wants to retain her appeal to the majority ethnicity of her constituents.

Playing to the gallery used to be the old term for it.

Are you a Jewish black person?

As a Jewish person of colour, my experience is that I have encountered more racism for being Jewish than being a person of colour. I'm not religious but ethnically Jewish, which btw, year 2025, is something many still fail to understand the concept of.

My name is a giveaway, btw. I don't even have to meet someone in person to encounter racism.

At work, we are a group of Jews supporting each other more than ever due to an increase in antisemitism even in the workplace. That's reality, but David Baddiel is right - "Jews don't count".

I am aware of this situation. In Rome, I was forced to cross the road and walk on the opposite side of the Synagogue by an armed man. He was private security and not the police. My crime....being brown...he didn't do this to any of the white tourists.

No the vast majority of Jews are not white. Its not straightforward. Jews are an ethno religious group for a start but most American Jews identify as white but how that information is gathered is shaped by the categories on census questions. The majority of Jews in Israel are certainly not white, being more likely to be Middle Eastern North African, Indian, Ethiopian etc

Can you provide any formal statistical data that supports this. I am not aware of any. Recently it has been shown that black mothers receive worse maternity care in the NHS. I believe that most people are aware that police in America kill a number a unarmed black people each year. Does this sort of thing happen to Jewish people?

No, I don't. But the vast majority of them are. A black Jewish person will receive more prejudice for their skin colour than their religion.

I think what is being spoken about is Jewish people being the most religiously targeted group

That doesn't take into account structural, institutional and systemic racism

Both are terrible both cause suffering and pain

But it is different that is the point being made

Brilliant post

The Black community are not the most targeted. Jewish people are the most disproportionately targeted. Abbott encourages this distorted picture.

Published in February 2015, the Casey Report concluded that Rotherham Council was "not fit for purpose".[180] Casey identified a culture of "bullying, sexism ... and misplaced 'political correctness'", along with a history of covering up information and silencing whistleblowers. The child sexual exploitation team was poorly directed, had excessive case loads, and did not share information.[181] The council had a history of failing to deal with issues around race:[182] Pakistani-heritage councillors were left to deal with all issues pertaining to that community, which left them able to exert disproportionate influence, while white councillors ignored their responsibilities.[183]

Heal's third report in 2006 said that the continuing situation involved "systematic physical and sexual violence against young women", including trafficking to other towns.[153] The report recommended: "More emphasis should be placed on tackling the abusers, rather than the abused."[154] Heal sent her 2006 report to the Rotherham Drugs Partnership,[155] the district commander, and the chief superintendents.[156][46] Heal left the South Yorkshire Police in March 2007. In 2015, her 2003 and 2006 reports were released by South Yorkshire Police following a Freedom of Information Act request.[157][149][158]

@nomassystemic just means systemic. It can mean any system. What happened in all those northern towns against those girls was systemic. They weren’t one-off rapes. There was systemic abuse, minimising and silencing of those girls.

Persecution is a pretty heavy thing to bear. And you can see it in posts on here even.

I'm answering the OP, who argued that "people visibly of a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious."

All acts of racism are deplorable. I'm Asian and Asians experienced the most last year (31.3% of victims of racially or religiously aggravated hate crime were Asian). It doesn't change my view that that black people are victims of structural and systemic racism, which my community isn't.

I don't agree that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people don't experience racism.

But I do believe that black people are victims of structural and systemic racism.