Page 10 | AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

Elephantiner · 2025-07-17T13:18:00+00:00

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here? Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

ForrinMummy · 20/07/2025 12:29

EasternStandard · 20/07/2025 11:58

Why mention Jewish people? If you think she is correct why bring another group into it, especially when it’s their experience not hers

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You see, my starting assumption is that Diane Abbott (like Meghan Markle) can’t do right for doing wrong.

If she had not mentioned Jewish people, I can imagine that being seen as an example of Antisemitism and that she thinks the Holocaust is less worthy of mention than ‘Gingers’.
People who are visibly Other get attacked for that Otherness more than people who are less visibly Other. Antisemitism exists- those who are visibly Jewish (e.g. through their clothing or hairstyle) receive more hassle than secular Jews, all else being equal.
There is no way for a person to be ‘secularly’ Black. That’s all she is saying.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/07/2025 12:29

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 12:25

I suppose it’s surprising what distancing yourself from your previous political views can achieve.

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Was never entirely sure they were his views. All of that macho posturing as Defence Secretary felt very much like an act.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 12:26

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 12:25

I suppose it’s surprising what distancing yourself from your previous political views can achieve.

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Well, he did some great train journeys 😉

Dragonflea28 · 20/07/2025 12:25

soddingspiderseason · 17/07/2025 14:25

I don’t think there should be a hierarchy of racism. In terms of history, the Jewish community has experienced racism for thousands of years - the colour of their skin is irrelevant. I really don’t like this type of comparison, and it feels intrinsically wrong.

I agree with this. All racial/ethnic/nationality based bigotry needs stamping out. We all bleed red. No one is above another.

AuntyHistamine · 20/07/2025 12:25

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/07/2025 12:20

Mr. Portillo has very successfully reinvented himself, hasn’t he?

I suppose it’s surprising what distancing yourself from your previous political views can achieve.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 12:21

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/07/2025 12:20

Mr. Portillo has very successfully reinvented himself, hasn’t he?

He has, to be fair, Skyler.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/07/2025 12:20

Mr. Portillo has very successfully reinvented himself, hasn’t he?

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 12:14

I did used to enjoy her stint with Portilo.

Edited to correctly spell Portillo. Apologies as I've incorrectly spelt Abbott's name, in places.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/07/2025 12:11

Hotflushesandchilblains · 17/07/2025 21:44

I also cant stand her and have not been able to since I heard her on Today about 30 years ago. Sending her kid to a private school - I dont actually have a problem with. But just refusing to answer the question about it when she was in government - just going silent? I lost all respect for her that day so hearing her opine on things over the years - yes, its built to not be able to stand her.

Plus a family member worked at houses of parliament for a while and said she was deeply unpleasant.

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I worked for her. I didn’t find her so, personally. Not an easy boss, but certainly not deeply unpleasant!

Interestingly, as a white person, I experienced racism on several occasions during the job. If she ever witnessed it, she gave the culprit merry hell.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 12:09

ForrinMummy · 20/07/2025 11:48

I disagree with your analysis and I think Diane Abbott is correct (This being I think the one point of her politics I agree with)

As someone upthread said, she as an individual received half of all hate. Jeremy Corbyn, a white man who shares her politics shows that this is about her skin colour and her sex.

Corbyn gets plenty of hate. Abbott shouldn't be so controversial, as she has been many times. You don't get a free pass because of your sex and/or race.

SharonEllis · 20/07/2025 11:58

ForrinMummy · 20/07/2025 11:48

I disagree with your analysis and I think Diane Abbott is correct (This being I think the one point of her politics I agree with)

As someone upthread said, she as an individual received half of all hate. Jeremy Corbyn, a white man who shares her politics shows that this is about her skin colour and her sex.

That's not relevant to the comparison she was maki g with redheafs, Travellers, Irish people or Jewish people.

EasternStandard · 20/07/2025 11:58

ForrinMummy · 20/07/2025 11:48

I disagree with your analysis and I think Diane Abbott is correct (This being I think the one point of her politics I agree with)

As someone upthread said, she as an individual received half of all hate. Jeremy Corbyn, a white man who shares her politics shows that this is about her skin colour and her sex.

Why mention Jewish people? If you think she is correct why bring another group into it, especially when it’s their experience not hers

SharonEllis · 20/07/2025 11:52

Reugny · 20/07/2025 11:25

No she can't but she shouldn't dismiss what they face racism which her stance is to do.

Incidentally I felt she was trying to patronise the original author of the article, who was simply pointing out racism is complex.

For example the author of the article would have received racism over their name, which Ms Abbott would never receive. Yet they are both black.

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Yes, as potentially would someone with a Jewish name. 'Visibility' works differently in different situations.

ForrinMummy · 20/07/2025 11:48

I disagree with your analysis and I think Diane Abbott is correct (This being I think the one point of her politics I agree with)

As someone upthread said, she as an individual received half of all hate. Jeremy Corbyn, a white man who shares her politics shows that this is about her skin colour and her sex.

Reugny · 20/07/2025 11:30

Tandora · 20/07/2025 10:55

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

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She didn't say that and that's the issue.

Everyone who states what they think she originally said, is actually clearer then she is.

Reugny · 20/07/2025 11:25

EasternStandard · 20/07/2025 11:18

Diane Abbott can’t sum up the experience for a group she is not part of. That’s up to the people who experience what they do.

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No she can't but she shouldn't dismiss what they face racism which her stance is to do.

Incidentally I felt she was trying to patronise the original author of the article, who was simply pointing out racism is complex.

For example the author of the article would have received racism over their name, which Ms Abbott would never receive. Yet they are both black.

EasternStandard · 20/07/2025 11:18

Tandora · 20/07/2025 10:55

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

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Diane Abbott can’t sum up the experience for a group she is not part of. That’s up to the people who experience what they do.

SharonEllis · 20/07/2025 11:04

Tandora · 20/07/2025 10:55

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

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I take it neithrr of you read the letter because that is not all she said.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 10:58

Tandora · 20/07/2025 10:55

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

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As should Jewish people. Except when they say so, they get an inquisition about it.

Tandora · 20/07/2025 10:55

FighterPilotSwifts · 17/07/2025 14:37

All she has said, as far as I know, is that black people are instantly identified by others as black while people from other groups are not always instantly identified as coming from that group. Which I agree is true.
She hasn't said there's a hierarchy of racism it's just different. Black people cannot hide being black, for them racism is inescapable

This. And she should be allowed to say so.

Dangermoo · 20/07/2025 10:50

Hotflushesandchilblains · 19/07/2025 21:24

BTW - about 25 years ago I read a really interesting paper by a black academic in the US who said she was concerned about the 'victocracy' she saw emerging - the position of black experiences as the biggest victims and the way this downplayed other experiences.

This positioning does not help, in fact I think it means people discount some of the things she says which deserve serious thought.

I also have a cousin who worships DA. And who informed me that it is not possible for black people to be racist. If she is indicative of DAs beliefs, no wonder she gets a lot of shit.

Is some of it racism and misogyny. Absolutely, probably the majority. But it does not help that she says such stupid things. Either she is really bad at expressing difficult concepts. In which case you would wonder how she got through Cambridge. Or she really believes in a hierarchy of suffering. Which is disgusting.

The impossibility of black people being racist, stems from the power structure, which is now defunct. It is an ignorant and arrogant belief. Racism is prejudice and discrimination, based on one's race, without exception.

Reugny · 20/07/2025 10:46

AuntyHistamine · 19/07/2025 16:57

The original one from 2023, or the recent amnesia version?

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That's the original one for 2023

Hotflushesandchilblains · 19/07/2025 22:25

and tried to pull the race card. Her behaviour was incredibly hypocriitical.

In an area which is incredibly racially diverse!

Longingdreamer · 19/07/2025 22:20

Hotflushesandchilblains · 19/07/2025 21:17

She was the education secretary at the time! And if she had explained it, I would have had more respect. I.E. the provision in my area for people like my son is not where I want it to be as education secretary and I will work tirelessly to get it there, but in the meantime, I am also a mother who must do the best by my child.

Or

My sons individual needs could not be adequately met at the state schools in my area. I will work towards this for everyone, but in the meantime I cannot in good conscience put him in a situation which will be wrong for him.

I would have had so much more support for her. But in her arrogance, she just refused to discuss it. THAT was the problem for me.

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Tony Blair's children didn't go to a private school: they went to a state Catholic school. DA criticised this, then sent her son to a private school, and tried to pull the race card. Her behaviour was incredibly hypocritical.

Hotflushesandchilblains · 19/07/2025 21:24

BTW - about 25 years ago I read a really interesting paper by a black academic in the US who said she was concerned about the 'victocracy' she saw emerging - the position of black experiences as the biggest victims and the way this downplayed other experiences.

This positioning does not help, in fact I think it means people discount some of the things she says which deserve serious thought.

I also have a cousin who worships DA. And who informed me that it is not possible for black people to be racist. If she is indicative of DAs beliefs, no wonder she gets a lot of shit.

Is some of it racism and misogyny. Absolutely, probably the majority. But it does not help that she says such stupid things. Either she is really bad at expressing difficult concepts. In which case you would wonder how she got through Cambridge. Or she really believes in a hierarchy of suffering. Which is disgusting.