Who is being unreasonable - different standards in the home

I'm afraid I've been through all that. I have everything marked and labelled. However if the other people living with you aren't naturally that way inclined then nothing will change. It just means I spend my whole time nagging everyone to do these things and it's fucking miserable. For them and for me. They might know what you want them to do and how to do it but if it's not how they want to live they'll never do it without being nagged and they shouldn't have to, to be honest. The only way to find any kind of peace is the middle ground, a way of living that both sides can accept. Unfortunately in @Cantgetbehindtheradiator 's case it seems the other side keep moving that middle ground more and more towards their way.

If you genuinely believe you are being reasonable, @Cantgetbehindtheradiator , then I think all you can do is communicate clearly with your husband (not sure you can do the same with children) about how miserable this is all making you. Remind him that if he really loves and cares about you then he needs to show you that by making an effort. But equally, if he isn't by nature as tidy as you, you can't change him completely as that's miserable for him too. If he isn't prepared to compromise, how far are you prepared to go with this? Would you leave him? If that's the case then you have to communicate that clearly but don't throw threats around you're not prepared to see through.

If you can communicate clearly between you but can't reach any happy compromise then you'll have to get more creative about solutions. Can you afford a cleaner to come in regularly? If someone else can deal with the problem some of the time, you don't have to spend so much of your time dealing with it and you can both relax more.

I recommend reading the late, wonderful Peg Bracken on this subject. Just from memory, in her "The I Hate to Housekeep Book," she pointed out re: children that you keep house not for them, but in spite of them; and re: husbands that they "with a few grim exceptions don't care that much" going on to remind you that the grim exceptions are often not much fun to live with - "...maybe little Napoleon turns blue every time the window blind is an inch out of line."

There are also good tips on how to contain the chaos so that you're in control of it without constantly trundling around after them like that poor little sweeper droid in Wal-E (for whom my heart bled).

The years will roll on, and eventually there will be order and peace restored in your house, the downside being that when you want to see them you'll have to go to theirs.

dear @Cantgetbehindtheradiator, you're absolutely not being ridiculous, but you will need to be strong without being punitive or harsh. You have to establish and enforce boundaries around "tidy-up time".
Ask any Nursery teacher (or Reception or Y1 teacher) for hints and wrinkles.e.g. Rule: Not allowed to get out new toy/activity/game unless&until current one is put away.
Rule: Before any meal, toys/games, etc. are (roughly) tidied up/away (unless there's a clear & important project in mid-flow, e.g. Lego Mega-City, Marble-run Superhighway).
Have Plentiful Boxes & Baskets - rigid plastic and/or soft woven felt (IKEA) in which, very quickly, to chuck similar items.
Puzzles & Jigsaws: With an indelible felt-tip, mark the BACK of each piece (e.g. of a jigsaw) with a number and/or code (e.g. "HP1" = Harry Potter, easiest jigsaw), so you know which box to fling it into.
Boxes & Containers; Sellotape corners of boxes & containeers when they, inevitably, get damaged. BUY AN OFFICE GRADE SELLOTAPE DISPENSER - to help you with this mending. It will repay the outlay in spades.
Have A Saying or Jingle: ... which you repeat (like a relentless ad jingle), e.g. 🎼 "Tidy Up Time, Tidy Up Time, / Tidy Up, Tidy Up, Tidy Up Time." 🎼 until you have bored a hole into the brains of your DCs and they see there is now way out but to comply.
Be Relentlessly Cheerful: Do "Broken Record", but with a huge smile, so that (hopefully) you'll bring about a situation where the DCs say to themselves and/or each other:- "Oh, Gawd! Quick, do what she wants or she'll start on with that bloody awful jingle". In which case, QED, you'll have done what you set out to do.
Good luck.

I’m like you op. I absolutely cannot and I really mean cannot function without mess and clutter around me. Everything has a plan. I also have young kids but all toys have its own place too. I have a toy box in each and every single room. Surfaces are clear and uncluttered. I clean the kitchen daily. Dh doesn’t have time to do housework as he works long hours in a stressful job, so he pays for a cleaner instead. So he is pulling his weight.
I also find mess around me like noise. Just can’t focus.

Yanbu

When men become partners and dads, they need to take responsibility and become more social. They need to step up.

They are insufferably lazy and entitled. Given the chance, dh will do nothing in the house. They all will from what I have seen.

Its depressing.

Hard to say without seeing pics of your home really. As you say, you have to expect a certain amount of mess. You speak about lowering your standards but it all depends on whether you had overly high standards in the first place, which might be the case. Maybe lay down some stricter rules for certain rooms in the house so you can feel more in control of the home and feel less stressed by it all?

I mean are we talking not putting toys away at the end of the day or not putting away as they go? First one is not ok, second one is sadly normal.

Throwing clothes on the floor instead of the laundry? Not cleaning up spillages/food? I guess some more context would be helpful as there are different kinds of messes, different kinds of spaces and it depends on where your standard was before you lowered it.

I'm afraid this is a you issue.

Unless he's living like a pig who is to say dh is wrong and you're right?

He seems happy, you are not, you can only change yourself hence its a you issue.

So, you shouldn't have married him. Bit late.

Does he care about you? Is he willing to change for you? Can you agree a minimum standard and agree EXACTLY what that looks like eg is doing a load of laundry putting it in the machine, or is it noticing it needs doing, washing it, hanging it out, keeping an eye on it, bringing it in, folding it and putting it away? Is cleaning the bathroom a spray and wipe and squirt of bleach or is it scrubbing the back of the toilet and polishing taps?

Would you leave over this eventually? Does he understand that?

I could not be nagging someone. I'd explain a few times but if they agreed to do something then didn't there'd be no future in the relationship.

DH doesn't really see stuff like dust. The plugs and stuff all needed sorting out behind the telly unit as we had bought new extension socket strips, He was just going to unplug the lot, then plug back in, I was saying it needed all properly dusting and vacuuming and brandishing the dusting glove, he just looked at me, so I ended up doing this dusting so I knew it had been done. I think, well know, he would have just changed them and ignored the dust.

🤣🤣🤣

I don't see this as a man vs woman issue. My husband definitely sees and deals with mess. My mother on the other hand... I so carefully clear up after her and I'm upset every time I see her mess it up immediately again, until I realised that the clear kitchen worktop that I value is not comfortable to her. She likes to see it covered in shit (in my eyes), in her eyes she likes to have things around her and our ideas of a clean worktop differ. She think my clean and empty worktop looks stark and doesn't like it at all. I've had to give myself a strong talking to to not see it as Me=clean=good and Her=dirty=bad, but it's still difficult.

In your case they might say you're a clean freak and your standards aren't reasonable and we have no idea if that's true. If you're sure that's not the case then presumably yes, they should all be making more effort but clearly you're all going to need to communicate more to reach a compromise everyone is happy with.

Oh, and the "tidy house, tidy mind" thing is definitely a myth - in fact as trend, the opposite is true.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/09/messy-always-late-and-swear-like-a-sailor-it-just-means-youre-super-smart

DD lived with 2 gay chaps in yr2 Uni, shared flat, they were both much messier than her. She never saw that as gender-related, she saw them as individuals.

(I am female). i was the slob in the house when I was married. A big reason I got divorced was all the passive aggressive resentment xH had against me for not caring about tidying up the way he did. What a relief to revel in single person household slobbiness now.

I hope OP works out a better solution for herself. x

It's not a men v women thing but people do perceive mess differently. Put simply for some.people, the effort required to keep a very tidy home is soo stressful it makes life a complete misery, and they enjoy more of a "lived in" environment. For them, living with someone who insists on tidy surfaces and cleaning done before rest etc makes life permanently stressful.
Others are like the OP.

OP I would compromise not in standards but in rooms. For instance, insist on your bedroom being tidy so you can relax and have it as a retreat.
Insist on a clean bathroom and kitchen maybe.

But let go of the living space as it's just too stressful for everyone else to live up to your standards. Make sure they have space to be themselves and relax without living in constant fear of you asking them to pick something up.

I’ve kept on about this my children who are a little older than yours are starting to remember and want to have tidy rooms.
I also found that by pretty much giving my husband the job of keeping on top of the kitchen I don’t have to worry about that room. It doesn’t bother him to have the surfaces in our hall and lounge untidy but it does bother him in the kitchen as it gets in the way so it’s worked out.

They do see mess they think it’s not their job to clean it. They know if they leave it someone else will do it.
So glad I live on my own. Don’t give up on your dc though they are still young enough to learn.

Oh, my point was they do bloody see the mess!

Apparently our cat scratched the carpet upstairs trying to get into a room they shouldn't be in, lots of little bits of carpet left on the landing.
How do I know this? Because my husband called down to tell me when he went up for his shower. I didn't think anything of it until I went up to the loo and found all of the little bits of carpet still there😡 he obviously saw the mess and chose to to leave it for me. I picked up and disposed of the carpet bits and walked into the bathroom to find he had left the bath full of hair and bits......
This is an almost daily cycle. I genuinely think previous generations of men have been told that holding down a job is enough, everything else should be done by 'the wife' (even if she too is working 40 hrs a week).
I have an 18 year old son, no way is he turning out like his dad!

I have found it easier if we have separate tasks that play to our strengths-
dh cooks
i wash pots/do sides
dh hoovers
i sweep
dh does dog walks
i do bathrooms and laundry
dh does diy/cars/technical stuff
i dust/deep clean
Dd and ds tidy their rooms and put their own clothes away

if tidy is your thing I’d get the kids to tidy away at the end of the day and you do general tidying but your dh has to step up in other ways.

Stop talking about what you don't like, and just agree standards and systems you all follow. Ask your DH to agree a system.

So maybe in your house you could have a deal that you all tidy for ten minutes straight after tea, straightening everything out, as a shared routine.

If stuff gets broken because it was left on the floor, don't replace it, that's just a natural consequence.