Dd friend wants to come and play but exclude my other dd.

Why don’t you sit down with both DDs and watch the Bluey episode ‘Butterflies.’ (or get the book version) It is literally about exactly this scenario. At the end have a discussion about how Bingo felt when they left her out and ask your DDs if they can think of a time when they felt left out. Did they think it was kind/unkind etc

Your younger child might display challenging behaviour when she doesn’t get her own way, but that’s all the more reason why your eldest should be supported to develop strong friendships. Especially if you’re using the older girl to provide playmates for your younger one because she doesn’t have her own friends.

The older girl who visits isn’t wrong to just want to play with her friend. She didn’t accept the invitation so that she could entertain her friend’s little sister.

You need to have another child to keep your youngest company. You aren’t obliged to have last minute sleepovers. Plan them.

Ok so a few ideas

1. set your younger DD up doing a regular club. Brownies maybe? Then you can have playdates for DD1 when she is at the club. Will also help your younger one’s social skills in a structured way.

2. Allow your DC2 to have screen time for a large chunk of the playdate. I know this is not brilliant in lots of ways but it’s how I used to manage sometimes if they just couldn’t keep away and it caused issues.

3. It is absolutely fine to say sorry we just can’t manage sleepovers due to shared bedroom. See if the friend’s family will still be happy to host sleepovers without reciprocation from you - I bet they will.

4. have weekend playdates and one parent takes DC2 out while the other parent hosts the playdate

Please don’t expect your older child to include younger - especially if she is quite difficult. It’s not fair on a 7 year old.

Eldest child here and been in the friend's position too. Let them be and let them (pretty confident it's not just the friend who doesn't want your DD2 hanging around) exclude her or step up and make it more fun to not be with them.

It's deeply unfair on your older DD to expect her to share her friends, they've come to see her not her and her sibling. Do you anticipate this carrying on in the future and always having to include her sibling in her friendships? Have a think about the long-term and how you will manage this in a way that is fair for both of your DDs.

I was that older daughter and it made friendships really difficult. My sister would also scream till she got what she wanted and I was made to indulge her. It made friends not want to come over, because I couldn't devote my full attention to playing with them, since I also had to babysit a disruptive sibling who wanted to be the center of attention. I really hated it.

But it got worse as we got older. My parents would often leave us alone on the weekend. I was in charge. But since my sister would already not listen to my parents, I had no hope of controlling her. It was fine if we were both watching a movie we liked. But she made a big mess of the house and left me to clean it all up or face my parents' wrath if the house was messy upon their return.

It caused me so much stress and really hurt the relationship between us. We got closer again once we were both adults. My sister had mellowed out a lot by that time.

I agree it depends on family dynamics and house set-up. We're lucky to have an upstairs so the older boys go upstairs and the little one stays downstairs. She's also happy to hang out with me for a lot of the time, so isn't always very clingy to the older ones.

Obviously with toddlers it's different because you just can't let them interrupt the older ones' games the whole time or they just wreck them. So they do need some separation and space, luckily in our case balanced by the boys mostly being willing to have a silly game or play football with DC2. Or I'll be doing an activity with DC2 - playdoh, kinetic sand, cooking - and the older kids will wander in and demand to join in. So they're crashing her party, rather than the other way around.

We've never had a problem with closer in age siblings. My good friend has a 5yo and a 7yo, and 5yo is just treated like one of the older ones. And we've had a couple of close in age brothers (a year apart) round to play and again, no problem. I'm not saying I don't think there could be an issue in these cases - I went to school with year apart sisters who actually hated each other, detested each other to the extent they wouldn't talk and refused to sit next to each other. But I'd be unimpressed if my child was the one creating the issue. He has enough time alone with his friends at schools, camps and parties that he can be nice to their siblings (and tbf he usually is).

I have 2 boys 16 months apart. When the older one has a friend over, I do something with the younger one so his brother can play with his friend. But I also say that they should also play as a ‘3’ for a little bit and that they all need to be nice to each other. I wouldn’t stand for older kids being unkind to younger- hiding from them, etc - really mean!

When my boys who share a room have sleepovers. We usually either let them sleep in the sittingroom, bring other sibling in with us or they chose to stay at grannies.

'I hear her saying come on lets go upstairs before she sees or pretends to play hide and seek but never looks for her.'

This behavior wouldn't be acceptable in my home. The children would be told to play nicely together and include everyone present.

There is a 2 year age difference between my sons and they pretty much always played as a group with whoever had a friend over. I have a brother, 2 years younger than me, and if friends were at our house, we all played together. Even as young adults, my brother would invite me out with his friends if I didn't have plans etc.. My sons are young adults now and they share a loot of the same friends. That is normal in my experience.

There are always plenty of other opportunities for the elder 2 to spend in one another's company. School, at the other child's house etc.. Children should be taught to include not exclude others and definitely not play cruel games like 'Hide & Seek but let's not seek your little sister'. That's so mean.

This is simply resolved……..just stop the sleepovers!

It may be that the friend is saying what the eldest has sad to her but feels she can't say.

@CrispieCakewe have a 6y age gap and my ds is also the older one. His friends are so lovely and do have a little play with 2yo dd. It’s not them who is the problem, it’s her. She doesn’t want to leave them alone and I don’t blame her especially when they are the fun group. I’m always stuck then because she’s not interested in anything I have set up for her and we don’t have a garden so I can’t take her out to a class or anything as I can’t leave the boys.

So for now we only do play dates when I have a good few activities planned for her, or I hire a babysitter for that time. Ridiculous and expensive I know BUT it is so important for my ds to have his own space. I also have the play dates over her nap time too, so that cuts out a bit of time as well.

I spoke to a friend to ask how she did it with the age gap same as mine. She said that she was fortunate in that her older dc friend was an only and always wanted her over there and was very happy with that so it worked out. On the occasion that she had them over, it was extremely hard too and just wasn’t worth the stress. Another friend said she didn’t have play dates until the younger one was old enough to have a friend also come over and they play independently.
I don’t know how others do it.

My two are a school year apart. 9 & 10 years old. We’ve been having play dates forever.
When either child has a friend over, they all play nicely. I refuse to have one kicked out of their shared room or sidelined because the other has a play date. It works both ways.
I wouldn’t let a child dictate what happens on a play date, “she can’t play with my friend etc”
thats just mean & not nice being left out.

when one goes to someone else’s for a play date, I do try to get the other one a play date here.

Why the OP herself says that having a child with ODD is hard - well imagine trying to deal with that at 7 when you want to just see your friend.

Children are allowed to have boundaries as well and hers to spend time with her friend without a sibling who one assumes wants to control and dictate the environment is perfectly fine.

I would discourage that friendship as the girl sounds horrible.

I think I would be really honest with the parents of the other child and explain that while you appreciate their hospitality to your older daughter you can’t reciprocate just now, tell them in gentle clear terms why . If some one told me this I would be more than happy to not expect a return invite. It’s not ideal for your daughter I know and on the odd occasion when you can arrange alternative care for your younger child , hopefully they can enjoy time at your home? Just an idea ?

It's a question of balance and judgement. Of course one child's needs shouldn't be placed above another child's, and of course all children should have independent time with their friends without their siblings.

But equally family relationships and sibling relationships are precious. If the sibling relationship is largely positive, then it is a beneficial thing for the siblings. I wouldn't have a child around whose behaviour was damaging the relationship between my own children. Ultimately, although space to develop their own friendships is crucial, the sibling relationship between my children is likely to prove much more important to both of them in life than one child's friendship with another, slightly unpleasant child.

This is the case for our family, because my children generally are close, get on well and have a great bond. They enjoy their time together, despite the age gap, and I won't have another child upsetting that. If actually the sibling bond isn't great, they don't get on or one child is always being pushed aside due to the other sibling's needs, then clearly that's a different judgement for the parent to make.

Given this I think it's even more important your DD1 has some time with friends away from her sister.

Do you have a partner?

Have DD1 friends over when you, your partner or another relative can take dd2 out if it's that tricky.

I completely agree with this

The invitee does not get to choose the guest list.

This can be quite damaging depending on the dynamic with the Friend
We had a child in our street that bullied my little daughter relentlessly and somehow managed to persuade her sister to join in.
It still gets mentioned now 20 years later

This, so the posters who are saying 'tough luck dd1, your sister want this, your wants and needs don't matter'

Do you think that will be conducive long term, or in 5 or so years dd1 will be out of the house as much as she can knowing her parents dont think about her as a person in her own right?

That's a tricky one. I would be reminding any child in my home that they have to treat everyone kindly. If she repeatedly pretended to play hide and seek etc. I'd ring her mum to take her home.

I do think your older daughter should be able to play 1:1 with her friend though. I wouldn't exclude your youngest from her own room, but I would set up a space in my room/the dining room for your oldests play date and keep the youngest away (if that's what your eldest wants, talk to her about it).

SEN isn't really an excuse. Yes it might be incredibly difficult for you to facilitate this, but your youngest's needs are yours to deal with, not her sister's.

I just wouldn't do sleepovers if you don't have somewhere else for the older two to sleep. Your youngest deserves to feel comfortable in her bedroom more than your eldest needs sleepovers.

There is something lovely about the children who come and include everyone. We had a little boy to play a few weeks ago and they were all pretending to be super-knights and he decided he was a dragon and let my younger one ride on his back accidentally whacking his head with a foam sword and seemed to enjoy it 😂.

These are two seperate issues I think. One is that youngest needs to learn that sometimes big sister needs to play on her own with her own friends and the second is that you are specifically talking about this one friend, who I will dub ‘mean girl’. I wouldn’t have a child over to my house who is deliberately unkind to one of my children - she doesn’t have to play with her but she needs to be kind to her and it sounds as though she is not. It sounds like the butterfly episode from Bluey so perhaps I should dub the mean girl ‘Coco’…